Exploring Microdosing and Plant-Based Medicine with Rachel Pastor and Tiffany Hearn

[00:00:03] Hi, I'm Dr. Russell Thackeray and welcome to Resilience Unravelled, a podcast with new ideas, new thoughts and new thinking about resilience. Guests with remarkable stories, products and services that can really power up your own mindset and resilience. You can also go to our site for more information, to ask questions or to access some of our resources at resilienceunravelled.com. Let's get started.

[00:00:32] Hi and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and tonight I'm faced with two people from the States and they're from a woman-owned business. So I feel a bit out of the equation here but I'm going to ask some questions and they're going to inform and guide me and hopefully everybody else in the same process. So firstly, welcome Rachel Pastor. How are you this evening?

[00:00:56] Russell, I am wonderful. Thank you for having us on your podcast. We're excited to really share about this topic that I think is very intriguing for a lot of people, especially right now. Tiffany, Tiffany Heard, nice to meet you. Say hello. Hello, hello, hello everybody. Thank you so much for having us. It's great to be here. Really excited for the conversation. Great. And where in the world are the pair of you? Where are you? I'm in Colorado. Yep. And I'm in San Diego.

[00:01:25] Very good. Oh, I like San Diego. It's a really lovely city. Very nice. Not too bad. Not a bad place. So Rachel, tell us a bit about yourself. Yeah, I, like I said, I live in Colorado and I'm a mother, I'm a wife and I am an entrepreneur. I've been in the wellness space since 2008. And I really got into that path through my own transformation of going through a really a time in life that was really dark.

[00:01:53] I was a heroin addict from the time I was 15 to the time I was 20. And I was homeless. And when I was 20, I really came to a really death or change point in my life. And I had lost my boyfriend that I had been an addict with for five years through overdose. And through my recovery, I was introduced to wellness. I was introduced to the gym. I had a friend invite me to the gym.

[00:02:18] And I thought, who the heck wants to go to a gym and work out? And she wanted to go work out and walk. She wanted to go walk on the treadmill together and talk. And I said, that doesn't sound fun at all. But I had no really, I was trying to build relationships in this new life that I was living and trying to create a new identity. And so I went with her and we walked on the treadmill and we talked and it was lovely.

[00:02:46] And I wanted to go back again and again. And I went to the cycling class and I sat down on the bike. I had no idea what the hell I was in for. Sat down, instructor turns the lights down, turns music up and music just starts blaring. And everybody in the class is just going and hooting and hollering. And I just went with it. And I left there and the endorphins were kicking.

[00:03:10] And I was driving home and I thought, whatever this is, I felt like I had found the greatest drug in the world and I didn't even need a drug. And I said, whatever this is, I'm going to bring this to the world. And that really became my mission in life. And so I worked in the health and fitness space for many years, built large online coaching company, built Colorado's largest fitness festival, wrote a book, did all the things.

[00:03:37] And then one day I woke up and I really started to awaken to the fact of how we all are programmed and how, why was it that somebody couldn't lose the weight or why was it that they lose the weight and then gain it all back? Why would they couldn't stick with these habits and behaviors? What was going on? And as I started to study it, I ended up becoming a master of neurolinguistic programming.

[00:04:03] And, and I really started to open my mind more and more to the fact that if we didn't change what was going on in our hearts and our heads, we're just, we're just running in the same loops over and over again, which led me to the path I'm on now, which is working in the plant medicine space. So Tiffany and I work in psychedelics. We work specifically with psilocybin and LSD.

[00:04:31] And so we help people on, on the surface. We are a products company, but much deeper than that. We are about helping really awaken, awakening the collective and helping people rewire their minds and hearts and open, open their hearts for a different experience in life to create a new reality. And so that's a little about me. Okay. Very good.

[00:05:00] Beat that Tiffany. Amazing. Gosh, I love hearing Rachel story every time she shares it because I always learn something new, like her writing a book. I didn't know you even wrote a book and I know so much about her. So it's amazing. So yeah, my background slightly different. And so I grew up with a lot of adversity in my childhood. We were homeless as well. At one point living in and out of shelters, grew up without a father and the single mother home until I was living with an adoptive family.

[00:05:28] And as I got older in life, a lot of the childhood trauma really started to come to the surface and really started to impact me and affect me. And I played division one basketball, got a full ride scholarship to Providence College, was very type A, very driven, took responsibility at a very young age and really wanted to cultivate a life that was different than the life that I had been living.

[00:05:53] And so that was very interesting to have that approach because I didn't have an example of any of that. It was more so something that I just knew and I felt within me and I followed that. And so after after college, I ended up moving to Chicago and that's where I started my career in the medical field, which was definitely not planned. I had no idea what that route even was, but a job fell into my lap.

[00:06:19] I took it and I started with medical sales and ended up climbing the corporate ladder, thought that was the success journey that I really wanted to explore. And I was in the medical industry and executive director roles for about 15 years. And that's where a lot of the unhealthy patterns and trauma and depression and high stress levels and anxiousness really started to really shine the loudest for me because I was very successful, but very unfulfilled.

[00:06:48] And was just living this life that I really did not want to really be in, but I didn't really know anything different than that. And was on antidepressants, Lexapro and Adderall for about eight years and was in therapy, was doing a lot of personal development work. Those things were really supportive, but I wasn't able to really get to the root of what's really going on here. Where is this coming from? How can I really change a lot of these behaviors from a really deep surface root level?

[00:07:13] And somewhere along the journey, that's where I started hearing about microdosing and hearing about psychedelics. And I started to explore that path and started microdosing. And within three months, I was completely off my medications, still have not looked back. It's been over eight years. And so you pair that with a really positive experience and also a desire to look for a different career path. And it just, it went down, it went down that direction.

[00:07:38] And so I started working and coaching and mentoring people through microdosing in the psychedelic world eight years ago now. And then I was in that for about four years and I was like, okay, now I'm missing the business background because I was in business and strategy and business development. And I'm like, all right, how can I start to blend these worlds? And so that's what I did and started doing advising for companies and business development, specifically in the psychedelic world. And that's what we're doing here with Golden Rule. And it's incredible and it's exciting.

[00:08:05] And I'm really excited to deepen that conversation today. Oh, fantastic. That's a great introduction. And I think we're going to just unpack a few basics first, if that's okay. First, Rachel, I've got to ask you this question. I understand what hollering is, but what's hooting? Hooting and hollering. Yay. I think I'd imagine. Look, take us through what a psychedelic is and what the effect of it is. And just start us at the real basics, whichever one wants to go with that first. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:34] So when we're talking about psychedelics here today, there are many different psychedelics in plant medicines, but our focus is going to be with psilocybin mushrooms and then LSD. And what we're really referencing when we talk about microdosing, obviously you can sit with a higher dose and that's what our society imagines when we think of psychedelics and hallucinations and tripping and hippies and this whole direction.

[00:09:00] But what we're really talking about here is microdosing being sub-perceptual, being sub-intoxicating, non-hallucigenic, where you're basically taking one 10th to one 20th of a ceremonial dose or a macro dose. And you're able to break that down into daily or every other day throughout the week usage of a psychedelic. And the intent is to work with these substances or these medicines at a much lower dose where you're fully functioning.

[00:09:27] You're unlocking certain behavioral changes. You're promoting neuroplasticity in the brain. Your brain is creating new pathways. And really what this allows is these healing benefits such as breaking old habits, creating new healthier behaviors, alleviating anxiety. There's been a ton of incredible research where whether it's mental health therapeutics, such as anxiety, depression, addiction, alcoholism, PTSD,

[00:09:53] there's all these amazing benefits that these low dose of psychedelics are providing people. When you can really understand how to use them in a way that's intentional, that's effective. And so you're essentially working with these substances or medicines over a longer period of time versus all at once. And that allows you to rewire the brain over a slower period of time and go in and start to make a lot of these changes that we really are looking to create.

[00:10:22] Okay, I get that logic. I'm going to come back for your evidence in a minute because you've implied there's all sorts of evidence. I find it interesting that you talked about pathways, behaviors, addiction and everything basically. But why is it that micro doses are working? What's the logic for that? Because if you think about tiny ideas like homeopathy and things like that, they clearly don't work, but this acts like a placebo. How are micro doses actually working on the brain? Yes.

[00:10:52] So really what's happening in the brain is it's creating neuroplasticity and it's rewiring our brain. It's making our brains more malleable, more plastic. And what that does is it allows us to be more adaptable, to be more receptive to making changes. And so if you take the active ingredient in psilocybin, which is psilocin, when we ingest that, it's breaking down into the gut, which then goes to the gut to brain access, which is then what's creating a lot of the neuroplasticity.

[00:11:21] And there's some research with microdosing. The majority of the research is with high doses, but there's a lot that's starting to come out where the neuroplasticity is still affecting people from a lower dose perspective. And because of what's happening in the regions of the brain, think of the left and the right hemisphere of the brain that are typically not always communicating with one another. All of a sudden, because it's more plastic, it's more malleable. Those regions are firing off with the neuroplasticity.

[00:11:48] They're now able to communicate with one another and go in and help people make a lot of these changes. To give another example, we all have the amygdala part of the brain. It's that tiny little almond shape that is actually, it's tiny, but mighty. It's loud. It's the fear response. It's the anxious response. It's the response that we have when we're desiring something and then we get nervous and we hold back and we're not feeling confident to pursue the thing that we really want. That holds a lot of people back in a lot of ways.

[00:12:17] And so that piece, when we're working with psychedelics, actually starts to quiet down. And when that quiet down, we're able to get more present with ourselves. We're able to tune into, okay, how do I then want to move forward with this in a way where now I'm not feeling as held back? That's not as loud and active.

[00:13:04] Pathways are being established. Or our current pathways are getting cleared. But these things must be happening randomly. So what you're saying, you're almost attributing a link between this and something else happening as if it's going to affect a behavior. Surely it affects the brain in a random way based on your own sort of chemistry. Why are you so confident that, A, neuroplasticity is created and sticks? Because lots of neuroplasticity doesn't hold. But also, how do you know what results you're going to get from this?

[00:13:33] Because it just seems random. It can be random, yeah. And it can certainly seem random. And there's a lot of placebo that's out about it. But there's also a lot of science. And there's a lot of proven data out there. If you look at Stanford, if you look at Imperial College, there's a lot of credible institutional. Harvard is another example where... John Hopkins. John Hopkins, thank you. Exactly. Where there's a lot of proven data that this actually works. Okay.

[00:13:59] So basically, what we're doing is you're talking about microdosing, affecting neuroplasticity, opening up new pathways, improving synaptic response and communication strategies in the brain. That makes sense. So given that creates brain capacity, is there an intentional plan then to change behaviors and to change strategies? Or you're not just leaving it to look? We always encourage and teach people to set intentions. It is really important. To give it an intention.

[00:14:28] Because ultimately, it's going in there and opening up things. But if it doesn't have direction, you could create anything in any direction, good or bad. That was my point. You just said it better. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I think you got to give it intention. And so I think that's a huge part of what we really set out to do is educate people. So yes, we're a products company.

[00:14:57] But a big part of what we're doing, especially Tiffany being a part of our team, is going out and educating the world because it is a powerful medicine. If you know how to use it. Yeah. Yeah. So you've talked a little bit about psilocybin, which I believe is from mushrooms. But you've also mentioned LSD. And a lot of people think LSD is a manufactured thing. But I don't think it is. Is it from a plant as well? Yeah. LSD is more synthetic.

[00:15:25] So when I talk about the science and the neuroplasticity and everything that we shared already, both of them are doing a similar effect. I would say mushrooms, psilocybin mushrooms are more so focused on like serotonin, whereas LSD is more focused on dopamine. But there's a lot of crossover within the two to allow for the serotonin receptors to fire off for the neuroplasticity for the regions of the brain. The science is pretty similar with both of them. Yes.

[00:15:52] And it's interesting is that my understanding is that you can have mushrooms and it's ergot that it comes from. Stretching back my scientific memory now. But you can put the two things together, can't you? And again, there's some sort of multiplication thing because it is around serotonin manipulation, isn't it? And which is something that's involved in antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds. So I get the sort of the words being in a similar sort of sentence with those other things as well. So that makes sense.

[00:16:21] But Rachel, you were making some big claims about anti-anxiety going on there. So how does it reduce anxiety? I could tell you from my personal experience. Go for it. So I have always struggled in my past with massive anxiety. I really believe I think there's a lot of reasons I became a heroin addict.

[00:16:43] But I think a big part of it was I was experiencing severe anxiety, depression, a lot of overwhelming emotions. And the minute I tried the heroin, it took every feeling I had away. And so it felt very like I had found something that I was looking for.

[00:17:05] And so after I did get sober from using, all the emotions came rushing back. All the anxiety, everything came back. And so on that journey, I think for me personally in using the plant medicine, Tiffany is our science gal. She can speak to the science of it. I'm going to speak from the heart.

[00:17:36] And that is that what it's done for me in helping me remove the anxiety from my life and find peace is that it's opened up my awareness to understanding why I have anxiety, where it's from. Right. And allowing me to see it. And allowing me to see it clearly and giving me the opportunity to change it.

[00:18:06] Right. Which ultimately has changed my life. Because if you're a person who has lived with anxiety your whole life, you can't figure out why. And now you know why and you know how to change it. Man, that's a powerful tool. Yeah. So plant medicine has helped me in opening up that awareness and understanding. Yes.

[00:18:31] And for people, serotonin and dopamine are the two vital hormones and neurotransmitters which are rushing around our body. So anything that's around those sorts of things is useful. And don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of microdosing. And I understand it and I get it. Even from THC right through to these sorts of things. Can I ask a really stupid question, which is that you're talking about a plant-based medicine. Do you use sort of natural processes to turn this into a product?

[00:18:55] Because there are some places that have a plant base, but they ultra process it so it loses the sort of plant element. I just don't know. What's funny is we call it a plant medicine. Actually, mushrooms are not plants. No, they're fungi. Yeah, exactly. The reason we started to do that is because honestly, people don't understand. So they just relate it to being in plant medicine.

[00:19:22] So our process is we do take a naturally growing organic mushroom that we grow and then we extract it. So we extract the psilocybin from the mushroom in a double extraction process. To really take away a lot of the parts of the mushroom that the body doesn't need.

[00:19:48] And essentially are part of the mushroom that make people if you've ever felt nauseous or anything like that from eating a mushroom. Then we remove all that and we just take the psilocybin and drop that into the product. Does this come in drop or injection or pill format? How does that? Injection sounds amazing. Injection sounds amazing. It's all sorts of weird things. I'm giving you a heck, Russell. But capsule is what we sell a lot of.

[00:20:17] And then so we do capsules and we do edibles. Yummies and chocolates and things like that. So it should be. Sorry, I keep getting distracted by your fingernails. They're really jazzy. Oh, thank you. Amazing. I know. I just show up in all the color. I know. I'm very impressed. They're different patterns as well as different. They're just the same colors, aren't they? Anyway, sorry. I'll just stop that now. Maybe I'm hallucinating. The point I was going to make was, is it possible to overdose on these things? Or the dose is so minuscule that actually even if you had a whole bottle, you'd be fine?

[00:20:49] Yeah. So the micro doses are so minuscule that you really could have a whole bottle and you would be fine. So is this better to do this under some sort of medical supervision? Or are you relying on people's capacity to be adult to help them here? I do want to rewind to that. And I want to say you'd be fine, but you'd be under a big hallucinogen. You'd be hallucinating. You would be experiencing a full trip.

[00:21:19] But so what was your second question? I'm sorry. Medical supervision. Yes. We do recommend that people do have guidance. That's the best way to do it, especially under larger doses, because we do sell some products that help, that will facilitate a ceremony type experience of taking a larger dose anywhere from one to three to four grams.

[00:21:47] We're probably more in that one to three dose, sorry, one to three, three gram area. And we recommend that you do have guidance in something like that. That's interesting. So you're obviously in the States and you ship to the States and your shop's at goldenrollmushrooms.com. What's interesting at the front of it, as soon as I say this, I'm just desperate to do the quiz that you've got. What's the quiz about? Yeah. So the quiz just directs and guide people to the right product for them based off of what they're looking for.

[00:22:17] Because we do find that to be ultimately probably one of the most confusing things when people come to our website is one, this is already something new, right? Two, then on top of it, this is something new and they're trying to have to figure out what product is the right product for them. So that's why we do the quiz. Yes. And so go on. Yeah, I'll add to that. So the quiz is great because it's allowing you to get clear on, okay, what medicine is going to be best for me for exactly what I'm looking for.

[00:22:45] And it's going to support you with what we have these kits that we've created. That's like an all inclusive where to start, where to begin. And it will allow you to find your dose, to find the medicine that works best for you and the days that you want to microdose. And that's honestly about 90% of working with microdosing. Yes. Okay. So let's say I'm in the States. I've heard of this. Sounds funky. I want to completely change my life and have all that stuff that Rachel's persuaded me I'm going to have, including nails.

[00:23:13] Now, where do I start? Is there like a simple way to start? Or do I have to have medical checks, faff about, go through all sorts of consultations and such? Or can I just buy something and start enjoying the benefits? You can just buy something and start enjoying the benefits. You don't need any kind of medical anything.

[00:23:33] You can, what we recommend, and this is stated on our website, is that if you are on any medications, that we recommend that you speak to your doctor before starting. So there are recommendations around that, but you don't need any kind of medical in order to consume the product. Okay. And I've noticed at least four times in this episode, certainly twice, you've just lifted the most enormous cup to your mouth. Yeah.

[00:24:03] Is that, are you consuming mushrooms? Are you getting more and more chilled as this episode's going along? I am. I am. And I, so I like to put in cacao. So I got a really nice cacao and I, some almond milk, and then I put in my microdose. So I like to sprinkle it in over the top and then just drink it throughout my day because it's cold here. So I like a nice warm cup of something all day. So you're scoffing hot chocolate all day. No, I like tea.

[00:24:33] I love tea. Do you have tea as well? I won't drink it. Once this is gone, it's gone. Then I'll have some hot tea. Okay. So imagine if this is possible, that there's a world outside of America, which we don't deal with at the moment. And I know who, who knew that's all these other countries, but obviously how can people in UK, Australia, other parts of Europe, how can they get their hands on something that's credible, useful, obviously not being able to come to your world, but how do they find a good source of supply?

[00:25:03] We've actually been trying to find really good sources overseas so that we can really identify who we can refer people to. Because we get reached out by all the time, Australia, UK. You guys email us all the time. And we want to be able to provide good sources to you. But my recommendation would be is to start looking on social media.

[00:25:32] I know this would just come along with me because I know that can be a scary path. You're going to say TikTok in a minute and then we're all going to lose our credibility. Okay, not TikTok. Possibly go to Instagram and look for people that are talking about psychedelics, like credible people that are talking about psychedelics. Maybe it could be natural paths or different people, you know, in the space that live where you live who are credible sources. They're not going to be selling the product, I'll tell you that.

[00:26:04] But they will be able to direct you to credible sources. So that would be the best way for you to be able to find a really good, safe product. Now, that's interesting because you were saying that. And as you were saying it, I thought, you know what I'll do is I'll just have a quick look and see local health stores.

[00:26:30] Things like lion's mane, mushrooms, organic lions, but lots of lion's mane. There's poor lions. They must all be bald by now, the amount of lion's mane mushrooms it is. Is that the sort of thing you're talking about? Is that the sort of thing people can buy? So, yeah, you can buy lion's mane. You can buy all types of functional mushrooms at your local store. So that's not psychedelic, though, is it? No. Exactly. Okay. And that's really important to know, isn't it?

[00:26:58] Because a lot of people think they're buying psychedelic because they see the word mushroom. And it's very different, isn't it? It very much is. Yeah, you want to make sure you might want to reach out to the source and just ask them, is this a psychedelic mushroom? We have people ask us all the time because we don't actually say it on our website. We say active ingredient. And we can tell them, yeah, it is. Or in other companies, we don't, that's not what we're doing. So just ask. Tiffany looks like she wants to join in. She's jumping up and down.

[00:27:27] I'm just adjusting my seat. Okay. I've enjoyed this conversation. It's great. But yes, they are very different. Functional mushroom in comparison to a psychedelic mushroom, one's hallucinogenic, one is not. So they're very different. Okay. All right, then. I'm liking this. What should I be asking you that I haven't asked yet? There's probably a really obvious question I haven't asked you. Obviously, we talked about the name of your site. You better tell us what that is again in a minute. But what else should I be asking you to help our listeners understand a bit more about the product?

[00:27:57] I would say like how to microdose is something that's pretty common. I know we've touched on. That's pretty obvious. Yeah, sorry about that. How do you microdose? And like I said, you're microdosing with such a low dose, 110 to 120. Usually that shows as 50 milligrams up to 350, 450 milligrams is like the range that people typically microdose in, depending on your tolerance level, depending on how you respond to the substance, the medicine.

[00:28:22] And usually we suggest do a lot of education ahead of time, resource yourself, understand what microdosing is, the benefits, the outcomes, things along those lines. Connect with someone who maybe has experienced this. Those are always like really nice foundational places to start. But as you're getting started, you want to select a protocol, especially for those of you that are new. Select a protocol that is going to best support your lifestyle, your schedule, the days that you want to microdose, how often you want to microdose.

[00:28:52] And what we find for the best outcomes is to microdose at least three days minimum up to usually five-ish days. And so you don't want to do it every single day because the tolerance will start to usually build. But every other day, or you can do something like three days on, three days off. There's a lot of different protocols that we can share with you. Want to microdose at least 30 days minimum. That's where you'll start to really receive the benefits, the outcomes. And you can microdose usually up to 90 days.

[00:29:20] And then you want to pause, take about a week or two break, recalibrate, reset, not build the tolerance. And then you can maintain that and continue microdosing with the same protocol. You can change that protocol. So there's a lot of different ways that you can work with it. Usually the very foundational aspects. And then, of course, bringing in your goals, your intentions, bringing in that spiritual aspect of this. This is a very ancient medicine.

[00:29:45] And setting goals, setting intentions, creating like a ritual practice such as like meditations and breath work to really pair with the practice seems to be really valuable for a lot of people. Okay. Okay. Excellent. Just thinking about the fact that actually, I just remember something in the UK that using this sort of therapy is only recently being decriminalized. So actually, that's probably why there are fewer resources. And that's why you see the, I think you called it functional mushrooms rather than. Yeah.

[00:30:14] So lion's mane, turkey tail, reishi, chaga. But none of them are psychedelics, are they? So I think it's early days in the UK and some of the European countries with this. But actually, why not be... Eh? They are coming around. Yes. They are decriminalized. So it's good information now for sure. Yeah, that's right. I used to work in the CBD area. And CBD is everywhere now. And it will come as long as it's authentic stuff.

[00:30:41] The problem with CBD in the UK is that there's a lot of stuff that's marketed as it and it doesn't contain any. So it just works on the placebo side. I don't know who's going to do the sales bit now, but I don't know, Tiffany, suddenly he's looking up and all excited. So tell us how to find these things, especially in the US. Where's the site? What can you find? Where are you on socials? Give us the lowdown on all that. I'm going to actually jump in here.

[00:31:09] You can find us on social media at goldenrulemicrodose. And we have a secondary Instagram that's goldenrulemushrooms. And then you can find us on the World Wide Web at goldenrulemushrooms.com. And we are absolutely available to answer questions. So you can reach out through any of our different platforms.

[00:31:35] You can also reach out to hello at goldenrulemushrooms.com. So that's the way you can find us. You can also find me on social media at rachel.pastor. And I think Tiffany's is it's. No, I forget it. What is it, Tiffany? Tiffany Heard. You're just too chilled now. I am Tiffany Heard. So first and last name. I am Tiffany Heard. Very good. It's been an absolute joy meeting the pair of you. And it just reminds me of a terrible thing.

[00:32:04] I have to just get off my chest before the end of this session. It's a very famous old joke, I'm afraid, which is why are mushrooms always welcome at parties? Oh, my God. I cannot wait to hear what the answer is. I feel you now. Because the fungi. I apologize for dad jokes. You had to say it. I don't know how that fits the American sense of you. But look, it's been an absolute joy to meet the pair of you.

[00:32:33] And it's been fantastic. We'll have all the links in the show notes. And it's been a really fascinating talk to you today. And do your research. Find out for yourselves. Have a look at what's out there. Resilience is made up of many different things. And certainly at the moment in the US, you've got these good people creating all sorts of stuff. With a product which clears every known ailment and gives you new nails. So thank you both for spending time with me today. Thank you so much for having us. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Russell.

[00:33:03] You take care. Hi, I hope you found that episode useful and entertaining. If you want to support our work, please go to resilienceunravel.com. And you can become a member there as well. You can also send us a question there and even apply to do a podcast. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts or any of the other podcast hosts of your choice.

[00:33:29] As well as getting hold of some useful resources about resilience and a whole lot more. Join us next time on the next edition of Resilience Unraveled. Resilience Unraveled. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.