Exploring the Semester at Sea Program with Scott Marshall - Resilience Unravelled

[00:00:03] Hi I'm Dr Russell Thackeray and welcome to Resilience Unravelled, a podcast with new ideas, new thoughts and new thinking about resilience. Guests with remarkable stories, products and services that can really power up your own mindset and resilience. You can also go to our site for more information, to ask questions or to access some of our resources at www.resilienceunravelled.com. Let's get started!

[00:00:31] Hey everybody and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and my new guest Scott Marshall. It's a delight to meet you Scott, you better tell us a little bit about where in the world you are. Well Russell, first of all just thank you. Thank you for taking time to have a conversation with me, I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to have this conversation. I'm located in Fort Collins, Colorado, right next to the Continental Divide.

[00:00:57] So let me get my geography hat on. Which bit of the states is that? Is that on the edges or in the middle? North or south? Middle. Right in the middle. That's not the square one, is it? That's not the square stage? It's rectangular. Oh okay, okay. Near the mountains, obviously. Yes, Rocky Mountains are just west of Maine. It's funny, I've had a lot of podcast hosts, I guess I should say, from Colorado. It's obviously something to do in your spare time, is it? It's the elevation maybe.

[00:01:23] And correct me if I'm wrong, given that I know we're going to be talking about something in a little while, but you must be as far from water as you could possibly get, aren't you? Any kind of salt water, yes. Ah, okay. Ah, I see what you did there. Look, here am I burbling away, taking up your valuable time. So tell us a little bit about what it is that you do and who you are.

[00:01:50] Sure Russell, I just have the greatest honor, really, to be the president of a small nonprofit. This small nonprofit runs what I think is one of the most awesome study abroad programs possible. The study abroad program is called Semester at Sea. And just as the name indicates, it is a study abroad program that spends half the time on a ship and half the time visiting eight to 10 countries.

[00:02:19] It takes about 105 days. Our market is college students. About 90% of those college students are US. The other 10% are international. We're always looking to recruit more international students, but it is primarily US based. And we just finished our 135th voyage. Wow. So that just finished in Germany. So let's because I'm dense. I just need to understand this.

[00:02:46] So you take students and then you're teaching them a syllabus of some description and then you're in some subjects or other. We'll get into that. And then part of this is based at sea. And the lessons continue whilst you're cruising and searching. That's right. So we have a partner, a university partner, Colorado State University, and therefore located in Colorado. All of the courses are college courses that are approved by Colorado State University.

[00:03:11] And we hire faculty who teach those courses on the ship to the students. So while they're on the ship, they're in classrooms with their faculty members. And when they go to a country, they have many options, but one would be that they're going to be with their faculty members in country, continuing to have experiential learning opportunities related to the courses that they're taking. That's a brilliant idea.

[00:03:38] So I remember reading about this first off when I saw this and I'm a big fan of cruise ship. The first thing I've got to do in a very nerdy way is ask you about the ship or boat or vessel. So what size craft are you using? Yeah, it's not a large cruise ship and it's about 600 feet long. It's what we would call a small to medium size cruise ship now. Yeah. But we take students on a voyage. We don't take them on a cruise. Yeah.

[00:04:06] Because it's true learning experience. If ships, then this is actually a ship built in 1998, built in a German shipyard. We started using this ship about 10 years ago. It served our purposes very well. We basically use it eight months a year and a German company uses it during the summer. So it's now under a different operation during the summer. But from September to April, it's a college campus. And so how do you manage the logistics of this?

[00:04:35] Because I'm guessing, because you must have a certain number of students who all of whom are studying different sorts of courses. So you must have to have a heck of a lot of lecturers as well. And I can see the attraction from their perspective. But I'm guessing, I might be wrong here, but I'm guessing you're covering subjects like geography, marine biology or something like that. I'm not imagining you're doing media studies or American, I don't know what would be something to do with America these days. Do you know what I mean? I imagine that there's a relevance to these courses, yeah?

[00:05:05] There is. However, we offer quite a variety of courses because we want students to be able to continue within their degree programs. So 20 to 25% of the courses are in the business area because there's a lot of college students studying that international business and entrepreneurship and so forth. But we also offer abnormal psych, positive psych.

[00:05:28] We offer geography, cultural geography, cartography, sociology, world history, world religions. So it's quite a variety of courses. Some students are just beginning their college career. Some are finishing their college career. So we also offer courses at different levels within the college experience. I see. We're really ending up with quite a mix of college students and course offerings. Yeah, I think it's brilliant.

[00:05:57] So where did the idea come from? It started back in 1963 actually. Oh, okay. And so it's been around a long time. You know, the heritage does go back to this very simple premise that students, young adults, let's just call them young adults, will be better citizens of the world if they see the world. Yeah.

[00:06:19] And what is truly unique is that the ship is a community in and of itself, initially comprised of strangers who then become true friends for life as a consequence of this experience.

[00:06:34] We see it over and over that this is quite extraordinary, not just simply seeing the different countries, but then coming back to the ship, spending time together, reflecting on what they've seen, preparing for what they will see, building a power in compare and contrast, understanding that humanity is below the surface, common and with common needs. And yet, on the surface, so distinct and so brilliant.

[00:07:03] And I'm guessing you're learning community and collaboration skills, you're doing budgeting and finance because of course you're having to manage the world of different currencies and resilience because things will inevitably go wrong, won't they? And I can say travel broadens the mind. There's nothing broader than traveling on the sea, I think. And there's also that lovely perspective you get when you're in the middle of a big ocean of just looking out there and actually realizing how insignificant you are. It's quite a mind-bending way of thinking about the world, isn't it?

[00:07:33] I think there's so much in what you're saying. And when I think about the topic of resilience related to our program and our nonprofit, there's perhaps nothing more important. So these young adults are being challenged in so many ways about how they think about the world. And it is the community that forms that gives them the resilience to move through the 105 days.

[00:07:59] They may not have previously understood the power of community until they've had this experience. And again, these are 19 to 22 year olds who more than likely grew up within a fairly limited geography, perhaps have traveled a bit, maybe have spent time on a college campus, but then come to a ship, again, not knowing anybody, being assigned a roommate that they did not know before. Yeah.

[00:08:28] Joining classrooms with people from 150 to 180 different universities, having faculty from all over the country and all over the world and forming a community unlike any other. So that really is powerful in understanding the power of community to build personal resilience. Yeah.

[00:08:46] And then the team that I work with, there are 45 individuals who run a nonprofit that operates this program that has so many complexities, that faces so many challenges, and everybody is just profoundly committed to a mission. And it's that common commitment in community with each other that pushes us through some significant challenges.

[00:09:09] And what sort of type of person comes, because, and I might be wrong here, but I'm assuming there's a sort of type, a broad type, potentially broad type bending to parental thoughts, but also themselves as well. So is there a type of people see more regularly than often? Well, there's a lot of ways to slice that.

[00:09:30] The first of all, I just say on a demographic basis, like most US study abroad, I don't know if this is true in Europe or England, but like most US study abroad, two thirds of our voyagers are women. Really? Really? That starts at a very early age. I doubt that's the same case in Europe, where everybody is inclined to travel. So there's probably not much gender difference, but there is in the US.

[00:09:59] Underlying that, regardless of gender, there has to be some basic curiosity and sense of courage that allows them to embark on what is quite an unknown adventure. There are only a few things now. You're going to be on a ship. You know you're going to visit these countries. You know you're going to take these courses. You know how much you have to pay, but there's so much unknown.

[00:10:26] So you have to have some sense of curiosity and it is a courageous move. But my belief is that those two traits become substantially enhanced over the 105 days. They become more curious, more courageous. And third, I would suggest they all develop a deeper sense of compassion for the other. You may not have really embraced that beforehand or understood it, what that means.

[00:10:52] But I think as you see more and more of humanity, you get a deeper sense of compassion for the other. So what, and you're going to tell me there's no typical day, but what is a sort of a broadly average day look like? Not a typical day. So when they're on the ship, they'll wake up and have breakfast with other voyagers, which includes other students, faculty, staff, and what we have as lifelong learners. We'll talk about the lifelong learners later. So it's multi-generational.

[00:11:20] So you have your breakfast in one of the two dining halls, and then you go to the core course, which we call global studies. It's a course everybody takes. So you go to that and then you'll separate into your own courses that you're taking. At any one time, there could be 10, 15 different courses running. So you'll go take those courses and then there's lunch again. The whole community is having lunch at one of the two dining halls, and then you'll continue with your dining halls. There's a lot of courses in the afternoon. Those courses will end around 530.

[00:11:50] Everybody goes to dinner, and then there's a lot of evening programming. Students have their own sort of affinity groups. They'll have evening seminars led usually by faculty members. They'll be playing cards and board games. They'll go in the swimming pool. So there's a lot of evening activities as well. So that's a typical day. It's very similar to a college campus, and it's also profoundly different than a college campus.

[00:12:17] It sounds like you're making them work because I guess these people might accuse you of saying, actually, they're just going to have a jolly, aren't they? They're just going to be at sea, chilling around, cooking their own lunch, sitting in the swimming pool all day. But it's not like that. You're describing a typical day, but with, in a sense, the student downtime being slightly more constrained or different, isn't it, from a traditional campus? Yeah, it is. It's a full day. Every day is a full day. Every day is a full day.

[00:12:44] And yet there is still that community time, for sure. They still have the time in the evenings to be with each other, be in their small groups that form and various activities that they engage in. So, yeah, the days on the ship are quite full. And then the in-country time, a typical day. Maybe there is no typical day. So let me describe to you what options are available in-country. There's really three.

[00:13:10] So one is, if I'm teaching a course on entrepreneurship in one of the countries we're visiting, I have to have a one-day experience with my students in that country. So I will work to build up some partnerships in that country so that they can learn from the local professionals about entrepreneurship in that country. So that's one option. Students are taking three classes. They'll have three of those field classes in-country.

[00:13:36] Second, we actually design our own field programs that students can pay for and do an addition. And those could be anything from a simple tour of the city to get familiarized with the landscape all the way to a three-day, two-night homestead. So there's a whole variety of these field programs. The third option is with their friends, they can independently travel. They'll design their own activities and travel and adventures within some boundaries.

[00:14:04] There's things that they're not allowed to do. So it's really a wide variety of things they can do in-country. And you repeat that eight to ten times and you get a sense of what can happen to these young adults as they go over the course of a voyage. So how do you, given that small space, you know what I'm going to say next, don't you? So how are you going to deal with conflict, personality clashes, neurodiversity, all those sorts of challenges, which in a normal environment you've got the space, the time, the resources to be able to deal with.

[00:14:34] But I'm guessing it's hard to keep away from someone on a smaller ship, isn't it? It is. And it is humanity. So there will be conflicts. We have the good fortune to be able to hire just phenomenal professionals in the student life, student affairs field for every voyage. They're trained pre-voyage on what their voyage dynamics will be.

[00:14:55] They're given a lot of tools and then they're off and they're ready to really answer the call of those types of situations. We have humans, we have stereotypes, base xenophobia, racism. We have it all. And how do we confront that head on and draw clear lines on what is permitted and what is not? We have no tolerance in our experience for any type of anti or any kind of phobia. We will address that very clearly.

[00:15:25] Everybody is welcome and we'll ensure that that stuff is interrupted. And again, we hire really great professionals. What is unique? Again, it's not perfect because these things happen. It is humanity. What's extraordinary about our experience is that it is a closed community so you can interrupt it fairly quickly. Yeah. These people are surrounded by other professionals who could spot it, can approach it and have the conversation and really address it. And that's part of the challenge with conflict, isn't it?

[00:15:55] It's nipping it in the buds so they don't turn into issues, which is one of the challenges you get at a normal working environment, isn't it? People don't tackle things, don't they? The sort of fear of upsetting people. Yeah. We can interrupt it. At the same time, these are young people and they're only so equipped. Some of them come with some maturity and some musculature to deal with this and some come with zero. Yeah. And we have that full spectrum.

[00:16:23] And so you've got to take account of where that person is at the time and work with them and try to develop them. Yeah. There are cases, Russell, they're the exception, but there are cases when we take people off a voyage because they just can't step into the space we need them to. And you have to do that, haven't you? You don't need to apologize that to anybody because that's sometimes the only way you can deal with human beings.

[00:16:52] And you mentioned lifelong learners earlier, but I noticed on the site there's gap year people as well. So do you have people who are coming on the cruise ship and parents as well? So do you have people who are coming onto the ship and not studying and just having a lovely time traveling around with you? So the gap year we call start at sea. So these are young adults who are considering college, perhaps have been accepted at a university, or are just trying to figure out what they want to do next.

[00:17:21] So they do enroll in college courses. They will get a transcript at the end of it with grades. So those start at sea students or gap year students are college students at that time. And there will be a record. So there is some motivation to do well. That's good. Yeah. Now, the other end of the spectrum are lifelong learners. These are adult passengers who they could be retired. They could be taking leave or sabbatical from work.

[00:17:50] And they want some type of different experience. Maybe they've done a cruise, but they're it's some part of that isn't working for them, or they've done a lot of travel, but they want a unique experience. They want to be with young adults. They want to be in a learning environment. They want to be able to audit courses. They just want to see multiple countries. We've had this last voyage.

[00:18:14] We had 35 lifelong learners with their kids, and they adopt, quote unquote, adopt college kids as their extended family. And they come away with their own kind of rich learning as older adults. That's absolutely fantastic. I was thinking your gap year thing. It's almost like when I was a kid, we used to have a, I think we used to have an O level or an A level. They were, I don't know how it works in America. You've got this bizarre system, but it's just different to ours.

[00:18:41] But before you go to college, before you go to university, you have your two higher grades. And we used to have a qualification in what used to be called general studies, which was life skills. And your gap year is a bit like that, because I'm guessing they're sort of sampling from each of these different things, aren't they? And they are learning all these different areas. And we learn things about politics, critical thinking, all the sorts of things that don't get taught anymore.

[00:19:07] And I'm guessing that's an essential gap thing is a bit like that, isn't it? You're getting people to taste different bits and pieces and give them a broad based idea of the world. Yeah, I think that's true for any of our young adults who are on the ship, not just the gap year.

[00:19:23] And at 18 years old, going into one of those experiences, you suddenly do have to see what conflict management means, what adaptability means, what communication skills across cultures, across time zones means. And you get a real introduction to that, which you just see these young adults transformed. Whether they're 18 or 22, they just become different people as a consequence of this experience.

[00:19:51] And it is, I think, to what you're raising, life skills. It's not just disciplinary knowledge. Yes. And I see in the time of the other six or seven hours you got left a year, you're also running a podcast for goodness sake. Tell me about this. Oh, gosh, yeah. I would offer, first of all, not nearly as sophisticated as yours, but it's been a lot of fun. I don't know. That's pretty good.

[00:20:18] So it started with just so many things, a kernel of an idea where I wanted to find some way to elevate our brand by elevating our alumni. It could have been many things. It could have been many things. Again, our program has been around since 1963. We have over 70,000 alums. And I wanted to find a way to tell their story. And then I knew it had to be true to me.

[00:20:46] If I'm going to be the host, I want it to be true to what I believe is really important. And because of my own experience over my professional career, particularly in my current role, I came to believe that it is how people show up when things go as unexpected rather than as expected.

[00:21:05] That is, how do we show up for ourselves and for others when things just go awry, when things are challenging, obstacles are put right in front of us? And how do we show up? And so that's where this title of this podcast came up. We call it as unexpected and very similar to the structure of resilience unraveled. It's very conversational.

[00:21:31] It does feature semester at sea alums who have achieved something of note. It's qualified. They could be executives, but they could be authors. They could be influencers. They could be leading philanthropists, whatever it is. They've really started to leave some positive imprint on the world and because they'll have the stories. Right. Yes. And that's what we're seeking is these stories that they have to tell. And it's been super fun. I just finished a year, 25 episodes.

[00:22:01] I only release one, two a month. So you talk about my job is already very full. So I can only do it so often. We try to release them every two weeks on a Friday. And again, it's just been truly extraordinary to hear their stories and I'll keep doing it for now. And I think it's slowly, you know how it is to do a podcast. Like I do.

[00:22:24] You try to generate an audience, but have no, no interest in being a famous podcaster or anything. I really just want to elevate our brand by elevating our alumni. That's it. And if that's at some point just simply not happening how we want it to, then we'll, we'll call it quits. But so far I think it's working. Yeah, very good. So if people want to find out more, the podcast you said was called? As Unexpected. As Unexpected.

[00:22:51] You can go to asunexpected.com and all the episodes available there, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon, YouTube, and so forth. So that's interesting, isn't it? Because I was just thinking as you were chatting there. I think we forget how important the unexpected is. And because if you think about holidays or trips you've ever been on, you must get this at the semester of sea programs. You go on a holiday, everything's smooth. It all works. You go where you want to go.

[00:23:21] You see what you want to see. It's magnificent. You take your photographs. You come away. But then you go on a holiday and the planes are late. I remember one where we come to Boston and the whole of Heathrow Airport shut down. Listen, I'm off. Heathrow Airport shut down. The IT systems broke. And then only one flight was going to get out. It was the flight going to Boston. Everyone's running through the app. That's the point, isn't it? We remember the unexpected. And I don't think people really, and there's all sorts of psychological reasons for it, but people forget to celebrate the unexpected.

[00:23:50] Because that's the thing that really can stick out in your mind. Years later when you're telling your stories, it was the thing about when it went wrong was the most exciting thing, isn't it? And Russell, the question we should ask ourselves that minute is how did we show up? Yeah, that's it. Did you get mad at the person who was trying to rebook you and they were having trouble? Yeah. Did someone, did you yell at them? Really? And did you show up and saying, I understand your condition. You didn't cause the system failure.

[00:24:18] You're doing your best to try to solve not only my challenge, but everybody's challenge whose flight was delayed. Or did you get really angry at that person, even though they're working on your behalf? Yeah. That's the question is how are we showing up when those things don't go as expected as we want them to. I just believe that the world is going to be stronger as we get stronger in those unexpected moments. Yeah.

[00:24:42] We find compassion for the other in those moments as we're more curious and listen to the other and be willing to change how we perceive the other through these moments in time. And so there, there's a strong interest in me in doing a podcast where people talk about those experiences. Can we learn from their stories and how they showed up? Brilliant. Okay. And if anyone wants to find out more about semester, I've just been looking at cabins, by the way.

[00:25:07] If anyone wants to find out more about the semester at sea program, again, where would we find that? Semesteratsea.org. Russell, you are. .org. That's why I couldn't find it earlier because I hadn't been listening and put .com in, but that's good.org. So that's really important. That shows nonprofit. And are you on all the socials? A person of all the social media world? I sense not. I am not, but semester at sea is. Good. I am on LinkedIn. Okay.

[00:25:35] Always happy to connect on LinkedIn, but I am not present on any of the others. But semester at sea is on them all. You bet. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and yeah, ad infinitum. But I only do LinkedIn. I am always happy to connect with like-minded people on LinkedIn. It is not a perfect tool, but it is. You can control it a bit more. And I am guessing because there will be quite a lot of Scott Marshalls on LinkedIn.

[00:26:01] So do you have to say a Scott Marshall semester at sea? Semester at sea or. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot. And there is actually a lot. Yeah. Look, I could talk to you all night because it is absolutely fascinating. But I know I need to be respectful of your time. So look, it has been absolutely fantastic. A semester at sea. What a great idea. What a great program. Goodness. I wish I had that sort of opportunity when I was younger. It was a remarkable thing. I can imagine communities of people who are disadvantaged or whatever.

[00:26:31] I know you are dealing with an affluent sort of university crowd, but what a great idea for people to get people to go away and to collaborate. I think it is just a remarkable piece of work. And as just looking at your board of trustees, that is an interesting group of people as well. So Scott, it has been a pleasure to meet you this evening. I really do thank you so much for coming to spend time with us and good luck on the next cruise, which looks fascinating. Absolutely. And from now on, you are going to call it a voyage. Sorry.

[00:27:00] You know, it always makes me laugh. I got on one of the Cunard ships, one of the big ships, and it was very snotty. And the cruise director got on and he used to walk around with shorts but long socks. And he used to say to us, this is not a cruise. This is a voyage. And we all used to laugh and snark at it. But you really are doing voyages. I stand corrected. These are the best voyages at sea. Scott, it has been a delight to meet you. Thank you for spending time with us this evening. Take care. Thank you, Russell. Cheers.

[00:27:32] Thank you. I hope you found that episode useful and entertaining. If you want to support our work, please go to resilienceunravel.com and you can become a member there as well. You can also send us a question there and even apply to do a podcast. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts or any of the other podcast hosts of your choice, as well as getting hold of some useful resources about resilience and a whole lot more.

[00:27:59] Join us next time on the next edition of Resilience Unraveled.