James Fleming - Motivational Intelligence

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[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning all. Good morning and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and with me a fresh,

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: sparkly new guest all the way from Bonnie, Scotland. A warm welcome to James Fleming. Good morning, James.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning, Russell. How are you today?

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. And it's really interesting because, of course, for a change,

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone in the UK will know Glasgow and Scotland and everybody in America will know of Scotland

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: because they've all been to Edinburgh because half of Edinburgh seems to be made from Americans

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: these days. But what's... Tell me the difference between Glasgow and Edinburgh in a few sentences.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: What would you say?

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So I would say Glasgow is more traditionally... You've got the real Scotland where Edinburgh is very much

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: aligned with kind of tourism. So that for me... I mean, Edinburgh is a stunning city. Absolutely stunning.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe Glasgow is much more real. You know, a real... You know, real Scottish people are like... Just my opinion only.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But I do love Edinburgh. I've got to say in case I get any haters for that.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely love going to Edinburgh, but it's bloody expensive.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It is. It is. It really is, actually. Blimey, I was really excited.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting as well that I used to work in Glasgow, I was telling you earlier,

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and I remember being in the City of Culture. I think that's when I was there.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe before you were born, actually. I think it was 1980 I was up there working for the BBC.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you've been very kind to me there, Russell. I can assure you that.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going way back to 1972 now when I was born.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, well, yes. Well, I'm 27, so it all works out in the end, doesn't it?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it'll be a challenge for some of our listeners today to sort out the difference between a

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Georgian and a Glaswegian accent, so we'll do our best to stay decipherable.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what the transcript's for, if you get stuck.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm looking forward to today. So, I don't know, James, you don't want to kick us off by...

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Just tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. So, a quick synopsis is...

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: My name is James Fleming. I'm the Marine Director of The Power Within Training

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Development and The Power Within Her. We are a leadership in business development.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But let me tell you a little bit about me and my background.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I kicked off my career as an electrician on the building sites of Glasgow.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I decided when I was in my early 20s that I didn't think that building trade was for me initially.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I decided to do a bit of additional education.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I then became an engineer. I lived in Ireland.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I was working for a company called Intel, that little company that make the processors.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I then transitioned to oil and gas in my late 20s.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And for about 22, 23 years, I actually lived outside of the UK.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I built my career. I was in senior executive, Middle East, Asia, America.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I spent a lot of my career outside the UK.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And then in my 40s, I sprung it on my wife that I wanted to go start my own leadership company.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We were based in Dubai.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So, we left the sunny climate of Dubai and we came back to Bonnie, Scotland in 2017.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And we started our own leadership and business development company.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, a little bit about me.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Very working class background.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, my dad is a carpet fitter.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: He still is.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, by the way, little pitch here, little pitch.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a book coming out on the 5th of August.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Success or Excuses, Not Both.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of my journey and my story.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So, anybody listening, go if I read it that.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a brilliant read.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't mind saying so myself.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll get to that in a bit.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's fantastic.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So, that's quite interesting.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: What were you doing in Dubai?

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What was that about?

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Was that working, was it?

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, senior executive for oil and gas.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I worked for a large American oil and gas company.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was a senior exec.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I looked after kind of Middle East Asia area.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting because I work for the telecoms company based in Dubai.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And it is interesting.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You and I seem to be following each other around, but in a very different sort of way.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But, I mean, it was quite interesting for me because I didn't particularly...

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people love Dubai, but I've never been a fan.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And...

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting, isn't it, for some people who come back to their roots.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I've come back to Newcastle.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was born here and left here many years ago.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've come back.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So, how did you find the process of actually reintegrating after your career back into your...

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Almost into your original place of birth?

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, how was that for you?

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Tough.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Tough.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Tough.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I only ever came back to see my family.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd come back in the summer for a week.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Normally in the way to Europe or somewhere.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We'd normally spend a week in Europe.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Come back to Scotland.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Four or five days in Scotland.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Then I'd go back to Europe.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was always kind of vacation time.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And...

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd been away a long time.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And...

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of started...

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: What happens is, as you get a bit older, you kind of miss your family a little bit more.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a particular holiday.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I took all my family away to a holiday.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I booked a big villa in Spain.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And I flew all my family out to Spain.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And we spent, you know, two weeks together.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it was ten days together.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And...

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I really, really missed my family.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Really missed my family.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of set the wheels in motion of getting back to the UK.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That little, you know, deep down in my subconscious mind.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Something started to trigger.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But the coming back part was...

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd sprung it on my wife.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to set up my own company.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So, we literally packed up.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm like you.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I loved Dubai at the time.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Would I go back?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably not.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, definitely not to live.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely not.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's very fake.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's the right word.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But Dubai is not real life.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter how you paint it.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's certainly not real life.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's very...

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Blamed.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It's very fake.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Compared to some of the other countries I've lived in the world.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But very fake.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, the transition to moving back was probably harder initially for my wife.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Because my wife is originally Yemen.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: From Yemen.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I met her in the Middle East.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So, when we moved back, the language barrier...

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she speaks...

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: She studied English when she was a young kid.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So, her English is actually better than mine.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But remember, in Scotland, we don't speak very good English.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: No.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So, a bit of barrier around that.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, the temperature and things like that.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact I'd been away for so long...

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I really had no bloody idea what I was getting myself into.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting as well.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's almost, in a way...

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You bump into people who never left, don't you?

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And you end up with that thing of...

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt it was coming back to 1983 when I came back, moved back.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And attitudes are different.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're sort of...

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You're slightly stuck.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And just found it interesting.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is...

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing I noticed most of all, especially in this part of the world, was how slow people drive.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And it used to drive me nuts when I used to come up and see my parents.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you're back, it's a horror show.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: No one seems to go up about four and a half miles an hour.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That's because they're all...

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say because they're all driving Nissans.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But I wouldn't say that.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Because, obviously, I shall be lynched in Newcastle High Street later.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, look.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us a bit about the business.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you've done some quite interesting bits and pieces with it, haven't you?

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us about some of your big achievements to start off with.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So, as I said, we started our business in February of 2017.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just me and my wife.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I had never run a training program in my life.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd never built a training program, specifically myself, for the public.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But I had a really clear vision.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a really clear vision of what it was I was trying to achieve.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the reason behind that, Russell, was I had been on lots of leadership training courses in the past.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd sent a lot of my staff on them.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And there were a lot of tick box exercise stuff.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, go on a week's training course, come back, and I've got a certificate.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I am a leader.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And nothing changed.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, nothing changed.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was the wheel.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So for about 15 years leading up to me coming back to the UK, I started to study successful leaders, high-performing people, sports people, particularly in the business context.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was trying to figure out what makes, you know, James different from John and John different from Sadie.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, what is that?

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, same upbringing, same background, same education.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But some people just seem to really excel.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And some people constantly struggle in life.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was trying to figure the connotations of why is that?

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And that led me to basically saying, I think I've got it.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And it is literally, I know people can't see me, I'm pointing at my head here.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It is literally mindset.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: If you think you can or think you can, you're right.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a concept of what makes people successful is that self-belief.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I had, after a lot of study, came back to the UK, set up the course.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But I then went serial networking because I hadn't a clue.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And what I was hearing as I was going around these businesses after business after business,

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I was constantly hearing this negative self-talk.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, people were saying, oh, I'm not really good at sales.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And, oh, I hate being salesy.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, lacking confidence to sell their business.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking, how are they ever going to be successful if they cannot lead themselves first?

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: True.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I developed my first training course called Self-Leadership Development.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that took me about seven months to design and develop.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And during that process, I trialed and tested and went through a whole really rigorous feedback process.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I won't get any detail because I've gone forever.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a catalyst.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And one course led to another course, led to four or five courses a month.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But me not wanting.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But let me leap in there.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Because this is something that's often missed when people talk about I grew my business, doubled it three times in the last 10 seconds and all that sort of stuff.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We went from this to this to this to this.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But doesn't happen by magic, that process?

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially at the beginning, people – and you've mentioned the dirty word sales already, haven't you?

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And there is that need to sell, to hustle, to push.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You're saying, you know, I spent seven months doing this and I was getting rigorous feedback.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That implies you were getting work.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You were being paid.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You were cutting invoices.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's something that's really important in that, especially in smaller businesses.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You need that element of – you need that hustle, don't you?

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you cope with that?

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you find that?

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you build that sort of hustle that you need to run a small business?

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of people have the fantasy of running a small business.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing they say is, oh, I'm a great coach.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a brilliant coach.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a this, I'm a that.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But they can't do the selling piece.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So tell me a bit more about your approach to that.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't market, you don't sell.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't sell, you don't have a business.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Plain and simple.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: For us, me and my wife, we were both all in.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have any other jobs.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: This was the path that we had decided to go down.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think it was Tony Robbins that says, you know, burn your bridges or something like that.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Or burn the boats.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So we were all in.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We had to make this work.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that first three years – not the first year, that first three years were horrendous.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Good.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We literally struggled to get by.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I had to put my car up for sale.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, luckily, I didn't have to sell it.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a whole story behind that.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, year two, we sold all our fancy.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, obviously, working oil and gas, we used to make a lot of money.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: We had a lot of nice designer, you know, Rolexes and so on and so forth, watches and jewelry.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We sold it all because we looked at our businesses like we don't need – success isn't a fancy watch.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what people think success is.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So we were all in.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We sold all our jewelry in year two and we invested it in marketing and sales.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was that process of if I don't get out there, right?

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, by the way, also, Russell, I've got to add that a lot of times we were running courses at a loss because we're trying to build the brand.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were running at an actual loss.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was all about if people don't know about you, if people haven't heard about you, people are not going to buy anything from you.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, branding is huge.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't understand it then.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I just knew there's people that know about me and aren't talking about me and my business and what we offer.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: People aren't going to buy from me.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So we just made a conscious decision that just keep going.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we made money.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we made a loss.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was okay.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We just kept hustling.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: We just kept pushing.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And marketing – by the way, I didn't have a marketing team then.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Marketing was me working 140, 160 hours a week.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I wasn't building, I was on Facebook.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I was on LinkedIn.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You name it.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I was designing my own content.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I was on Canva.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was on PowerPoint.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You name it.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I hustled and hustled.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And people get this idea, don't they, that?

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Your overnight success.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, well, I've worked 10 years to get this overnight success thing.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's an important thing to say that if you're going to – there are a lot of people who go into entrepreneurship who think they – it's easy because they see the sort of fruits of it.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't see the cost of it, the risk of it and the challenge of it.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know Gary Vanacek is a big sort of player in this world talking about this stuff.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And he often says sometimes you're better off being number 135 in a company than you are being number one in your own business.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Because actually, especially in terms of leadership, as you said earlier, you've got to be a great leader of yourself, haven't you, before you can get out and do anything else.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's also a challenge, isn't there, especially growing from scratch.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You still have to be able to scale to understand the complexities of large businesses, which are different to the tiny businesses that sometimes training companies especially are.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Because often they start with one, two, three people building on associates.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's sort of a core and hub-and-spoke model and such like.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's – I like what you say about mindset.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is everything.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So how do people build a mindset, in your view?

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Stout is self-belief.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Plain and sound.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Stout is self-belief.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: The problem being is, right, this is what some people don't understand.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Self-belief is born to all, right?

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Think about learning to walk, right?

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if we didn't – if we weren't born with unlimited self-belief and our own abilities, we'd have gave up walking after falling four or five times.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of trivia for you.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: A study done in Pennsylvania, New York State University.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: They did a study on how many times a baby falls in order to learn to walk.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: 17 times an hour or on average 256 times a baby falls over before they learn to take the first two or three steps in a row.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, as adults, we fall the first or second hurdle.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: We give up.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm not supposed to do this.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this isn't for me.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So we build that lack of self-belief through experiences in life.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And for me, it's about getting people back through a series of storytelling.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We get people back to that self-belief.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And only when somebody really opens our mind up to, do we, like, maybe I can do this.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Only then do we teach the skills to become great leaders, great business owners.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Only then do we do it.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a framework that I developed called Motivational Intelligence Framework.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's how we build business and help our leaders.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So before we run into that, and I want to talk about that in a lot of detail, but let's, before we get in there, but there are the opposite side of the equation.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: There are people who are blessed with enormous amounts of self-belief and very little competence.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the other thing that we have to risk as well, aren't they?

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you deal with people that have, or are you saying actually in a funny sort of way, maybe I'm answering your own question.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're saying that you can't have too much self-belief.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So self-belief and somebody being overconfident, almost arrogant, in my opinion, are two different things.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Because they believe their own bullshit, excuse the language, but they believe their own bullshit before they've built the competence.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But, so think about this, what comes first, right?

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Is competence first or is confidence first?

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think comes first?

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Competence.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Confidence.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to have the confidence to build the competence.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But what happens is some people who have, I would call them really high, outgoing, extrovert people, tend to have overconfidence and under-competence.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But you need the confidence to build that competence.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Or we give up.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We actually give up.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I think actually...

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a fine line between both.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I think they find out what they're called.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm wearing my finger around it.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: In a self-sustaining virtuous circle.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to have both, don't you?

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So I like the way you've sort of badged something, motivational intelligence, because we all know about the other intelligences.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you've trademarked this name.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you have.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We have.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you sound a smart cookie, to say the least.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We have.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So tell me...

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I've read your white paper on motivational intelligence.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, why don't you just introduce the concept?

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So motivation.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So we all know the other two.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got IQ and we've got EQ.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Very important.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: EQ is probably more important in terms of being a really good leader or business owner,

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: because you've got to be able to read the emotion or emotional intelligence of yourself and of others.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really important.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_01]: However, through our studies, we found that it's not IQ or EQ that makes someone a highly successful business owner or great leader.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It's something else.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's something internal motivation that drives them to do things even when other people aren't wanting to put in the effort or they give up too easy.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's called motivational intelligence.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was discovered by Carol Dweck and a team at Stanford University.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And they did a study in 2017.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And what they found was when people who give up easily, their brain waves, so they put all these probes on them.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a big fancy name for it, Barry.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: They put probes on somebody's brain and they gave them a difficult puzzle to solve.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, people with high levels of motivational intelligence would look at the puzzle and go, I might not know how to do this now, but if I keep trying, I might figure it out.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, their brain is lit up like a Christmas tree.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have people that have low levels of motivational intelligence or self-belief or limiting beliefs where they always question themselves and doubt themselves.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Same puzzle, same everything.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: But when they looked at it, they tried it a couple of times and thought, oh, this is too difficult.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And their brains literally, not the physics, their brain actually gave up.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So one brain is lit up like a Christmas tree.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's trying all these different, it's connecting all the different parts of the brain together.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called a predictive brain theory.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other person who has really low self-esteem, low motivation intelligence, low self-belief, they give up at the first hurdle.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So they discovered that we have these two, we'll call them mindsets for talking sake, this growth or fixed mindset.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what motivational intelligence is, it's the DNA of a growth mindset.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So what is it that makes Russell get up every morning and drive his business forward versus, say, you know, David, who, oh, you know, it's one of those days.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And, oh, I think I'll just take the day off today.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Why is that?

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: What's that driving force?

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's called your internal motivation, which we have coined as your motivational intelligence.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, we do have scientists who work for us and psychologists.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got four scientists and psychologists that actually work for us.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And their job is literally constantly looking at the latest in neuroscience and the latest in cognitive and social psychology and ensuring that what we do is always ahead of the game in terms of what we offer and how we approach our customers and clients' growth.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting, isn't it?

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we talk about, and I'm sure you want to talk a lot of this one.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But what's it?

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of people use the word drive, don't they?

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of what you've said is about drive.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But how do you see the difference between drive and motivation?

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Like inner drive?

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: They're one of the same thing.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Another great way to describe it.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've ever read the Angela Duckworth book, Grit.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I have.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: That's another way of describing motivational intelligence.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: What is that internal thing that even when you don't want to get up, right?

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: When you have one of those days and you're like, oh, you know what?

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I won't go to the gym today.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But something inside says if you don't go to the gym, the next day you're maybe not going in.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The next day away we go.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So what is that internal driver?

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always attached to something else, right?

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, my own life.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: My morning routine, most people would think is a little bit crazy.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So I go up at 4.20 in the morning, jump out of bed.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I put my earphones in, I put my earpods in.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm normally listening to a podcast or I'm listening to an audiobook around business and leadership and finance.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm constantly filling my brain early in the morning, nice big cup of herbal tea,

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm out for an hour walk with my earpods in.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm filling my life, I'm filling my brain with...

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, don't get me wrong, a lot of it's nonsense.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the books are not very good.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm constantly looking for self-development, right?

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So early in the morning, I come in, I have a shower, I have my breakfast,

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: normally high protein because I like to go to the gym.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a high protein breakfast, I come into my office, normally around 6.15, and I'm working.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: 12 o'clock every day, I stop, my calendar's blocked, so you can't book me in between 12 and 1.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I go to the gym, I spend 45 minutes in the gym.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I come home, and away I go again.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's me normally to have 5, 6, 7 o'clock at night.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Not because I need to.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a team of people because I want to, because I want to always stay ahead of the game.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's those hours in the morning and those extra hours in the afternoon or evening

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that really help drive me and keep me ahead of the game and focus.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's motivational intelligence.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I live and breathe what we teach.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Because to be your very best, right, you need to be in tip-top physical and mental condition.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean you need to be an athlete, but you need to be taking care of your brain.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to be eating the right types of food.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you've got to have some kind of healthy regime, particularly morning in my opinion.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm back in my bed at 8.30 at night.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in zoo.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was actually, believe it or not, me and my wife were laughing last night.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So last night we were still chatting and it was quarter past nine.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I says to my wife, isn't it crazy that we look at the clock and think, oh my God, we're really late to bed tonight.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And I says, it's quarter past nine.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get up in about five minutes time.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: That's really interesting.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, earlier you talked about the fruits of success being watchers and designer labels.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So do you see the fruits of success being different now?

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: For me, it's absolutely.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Money is good to have.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It's nice to have a healthy revenue.

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But for me, it's the byproduct of being the top of your game.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: The revenue, the financial aspect is the byproduct of other things.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think about money any longer.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: If we've got extra cash, it either goes to employee salaries, bonuses, you know, marketing, creating new content.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we invest heavily in our business.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Because for me, we're trying to build something, a training company that's different.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we don't have consultants.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: No consultants.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody in our business are full-time employees.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Because when you're a full-time employee, you have a buy-in that you don't have as a consultant, right?

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So everybody lives and breathes motivational intelligence.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we look at everybody's home base.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: They have, you know, two big screens.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: They have docking stations.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: We make their lives as comfortable and as easy as possible.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And the return of that, that flexibility, that home working, people overperform.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a fantastic, you know, I think a fantastic way to build something.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I want to quickly add this, right?

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: When we have a client or a customer who we, I talk about becoming a member of the Power Within family.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Because when you join one of our courses, you become a member of the family.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You're in it for life.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Free content, WhatsApp groups.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're in it for life.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We do training courses free, let's say, for young teenagers.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So normally in the summer, we run two or three courses for female, young ladies, young women.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, you know, 14 to 16 around self-confidence, self-esteem.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And we do all that free.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to build a real strong community of motivational intelligence leaders.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Future leaders, past leaders.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's fantastic.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can see a legacy begin to appear, whether it's conscious or not.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I like it.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It's brilliant.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So you mentioned at the top of this that you're writing.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about how to get in touch with another minute.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But you mentioned you were writing a book, which is, you know, a labour of something.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So what's it about?

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about you.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a memoir?

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It isn't a memoir or an autobiography.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It isn't.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost some parts that might feel like it, but I've taken it.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a pure memoir.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_01]: What it really is, it's called You Can Have Success or Excuses.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You cannot have both.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's my story about leaving school with literally no qualifications.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: How I got a job as an apprentice, Sparky, by default.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Not by anything else.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a fantastic.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually really emotional when I talk about it and when I was writing it.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I got a ghostwriter to help me kick it off because I had no idea what I was doing.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And then once you're into that process and it's just a story of, I know that sounds really corny, but if I can do this right, if I can leave school with nothing and then change career and then change career again, then run a multi-billion dollar business.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: We literally have no experience, no qualifications, but a pure belief that I can do anything if I just learn.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't know, I'll go learn it.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I have this saying, knowledge is power only if you take action.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I never make excuses.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, never.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even in our business, Russell, none of my staff come with excuses because I'll say, well, you can have success at excuses.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't have both.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: What is it?

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a solution?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, and it's this story of my life.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a memoir.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like the different hurdles that I've went through in life and how I've overcame them.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But there's also 14 steps or 14 actionable steps for people that can follow to be a great leader, business owner.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's morning routines and mindset and motivation.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So the start of it's almost kind of like a memoir, but then it goes into the real action taking stuff.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's almost like a Bible for life.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You're actually literally describing a memoir.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know why you're pushing against the term because it really is one.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, that's great.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can hear the passion coming through and the hurt and the drive and all that's great.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you've said the critical thing, which is that everyone can have the belief, but not everybody wants to take the action.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's OK as well.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things you're also describing, I think it's just true, is you're describing a life routine, which for some people they wouldn't want to do.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, they can't expect the same returns.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's about it's about finding your niche in the world because that's OK as well, isn't it?

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Because and I think this is really important for people, isn't it?

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This and especially in terms of resilience, because you're talking a lot about resilience, really.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And happiness is the thing that you can have, which is a state of mind.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't have to be the most rich person in the room.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You can have a job dotting along at 20k a year and be really, really happy.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Or you can be working all the hours that God send and have a Porsche, a Ferrari, 16...

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think of something that's rich.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You can see how out of the game I am.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Rolexes.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know people who are extraordinarily wealthy and deeply unhappy.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're right.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: We're both doing the thing now.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: We're both doing the thing where we're pointing out our foreheads and saying, actually, it's all about your state of mind.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's really interesting.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So look...

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me jump in quickly.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me jump in.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Something you said there.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to be that guy.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I was living in Dubai.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I was on a quarter of a million pounds salary.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a huge house.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a pool in my garden.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: There was only me and my wife.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I drove a 150,000 pound sports car.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was bloody miserable.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Miserable, yeah.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I was miserable.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I was chasing money.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was miserable.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't until I came to the realization that I am so unhappy.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to do something about this.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're right.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not for everybody.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to be a great leader, you have to, you know, do more than everybody else.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You want to be a great business owner, you have to do more than everybody else.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're happy and content, going to work every Monday and doing your best at work, that's brilliant.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Because we also need people like that in our lives.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: We need those people.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if I fill up my business with me, oh, my God, that would be a headache.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing would get done.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm a visionary.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I need different types of leadership as well.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's, we haven't talked about leadership at all.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's the subject for a different podcast, just to talk actually about leadership.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's, let's look, I'll tell you what, I want to be respectful of your time.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at where the clock is at the moment.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to pull a thing over this.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But tell people how they can get in touch with you or your social media handles, all that sort of stuff.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So LinkedIn, James Fleming, TPW, the PowerWithinTraining.com website, the PowerWithinTraining, LinkedIn, the PowerWithinTraining, WhatsApp, the PowerWithinTraining.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We're all social media.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you just put in the PowerWithinTraining, that's our handle for all of our social media.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, our YouTube channel.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a YouTube channel, the PowerWithinTraining.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all on there.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you can contact me on there or any member of the team.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would really look forward to even just having a chat if anybody thought, love what you said there, James.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Could you tell me a bit more about it?

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely no problems.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That's absolutely awesome.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just realised, of course, for you, it's almost the middle of the day.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know, other people are just waking up.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But I love the idea that you've already been up for five hours.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I know this is half past nine in the morning.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm very impressed.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Another little pitch.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: The book, SuccessOrExcusesBook.com.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to build a social media thing around that link as well?

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you got it?

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't see it hanging off the website.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's unusual.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So push it on the website as well.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Say it again.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: SuccessWithoutExcuses.com.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: SuccessOrExcuses.com.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: SuccessOrExcuses.com.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: SuccessOrExcuses.com.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Book.com.

[00:34:43] Okay.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You do like a long website domain, don't you?

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Book.com.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I should look that up in a minute.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, James.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You've been very invigorating.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I thoroughly enjoyed our chat and it's been great.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wish you all the best.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And thanks so much for spending time with us today.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, Russell.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You take care.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully that was a useful and interesting episode.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: As I said earlier, you can support our work by leaving a review, which does drive enhanced

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00]: exposure or you can donate on our site, which is at QEDOD.com.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You can purchase our series of books all about unravelling resilience, leadership, management,

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and anxiety at QEDOD.com forward slash extras, along with some other free resources

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: available on the site.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We've also got a Patreon page and you, of course, can send us questions, ideas, thoughts, conversations,

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and fresh subjects at info at QEDOD.com.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully there's something there for you.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Catch you next time around.