Jenn Johnson RN - Intuition in Nursing

[00:00:00] Welcome to Resilience Unravelled. Hi everybody and welcome to Resilience Unravelled, a podcast

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[00:01:12] Hi and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and I'm speaking to my next guest, Jen Johnson,

[00:01:17] on one of the most amazing days. It is today, obviously, and there's this big yellow thing in the sky,

[00:01:25] Jen. And we haven't seen it for, I would say, a good six weeks. It's always seen as rain. Oh yeah,

[00:01:33] that's what it looks like. We've got it too. Candace got it too. So, we're good that way.

[00:01:37] It's a great day. We've got the same bit of sun smiling on us.

[00:01:43] Well, first of all, welcome. How are you?

[00:01:45] I'm doing so well. How are you doing?

[00:01:47] Good. And I'm stringent from the accent that you're not from these fair shores. So,

[00:01:51] where in the world are you? Are you in my second favorite country?

[00:01:55] I'm hoping so. So, I'm from Hamilton, Ontario, which is about an hour outside of Toronto.

[00:02:01] Fantastic. Oh, that's fantastic. It's great. So, one of my, well, a good friend of mine,

[00:02:05] his next client works in Toronto. So, he's always saying you should go across and see it because

[00:02:10] it's just quite a remarkable place. My husband and I are really trying to come over to the UK

[00:02:16] for a 40th birthday. We were supposed to go for his, but that was 2020. So, that was a no-go.

[00:02:22] And so, mine is coming up in March. So, I would absolutely be beyond stoked to go to the UK and see

[00:02:30] Stonehenge and all the history and the architecture and the paintings and all the wonderfulness. I would,

[00:02:36] I would, I would die. And a lot warmer than Canada in the summer and the winter, certainly.

[00:02:43] I think so. I think, you know, not too, too bad, but I'd have to brush up on it to be sure. But,

[00:02:50] yeah, I mean, anything's better than here sometimes in the winter.

[00:02:54] I think everything seems better where you want. It's quite odd, isn't it? Anyway,

[00:02:57] we should stop gibbering and do forgive me. So, I'm chatting away, forgetting my manners.

[00:03:02] And I should really ask a little bit about what it is that you do.

[00:03:05] So, I'm an ER nurse. I have been in the ER for about 16 years now. I've worked in trauma hospitals

[00:03:13] and stroke centers, but then I've also done very rural medicine in towns of less than 5,000,

[00:03:19] where we don't even have a CT scanner. Excuse me. No CT scanner, very little ultrasound, very little blood

[00:03:26] work. And it was my first job. So, I didn't really realize how much I was missing out on until I came

[00:03:33] back down south to southern Ontario and then started working in the stroke center. And it was just like,

[00:03:40] wow, there is a very large divide between rural and kind of urban medicine. So, it's been a

[00:03:50] rock and roll and ride, obviously, since 2008. So, it's been up and down here and there and everywhere.

[00:04:00] And bullies and so many stories that I literally wrote the book. And yeah, and just constantly

[00:04:08] learning every day. You're still learning. There's never an end to it.

[00:04:12] So, we were chatting earlier and I work a little around nurses because of one of my subject areas,

[00:04:19] specialisms. And why do people become nurses? What do you think is the thing? Because I wonder if it's

[00:04:27] changed over the years because it's certainly over here, it's become a very professionalized thing.

[00:04:33] It used to place where often women went because there was a care in place, didn't need many qualifications.

[00:04:38] But it seems the whole motivation for being a nurse seems to have completely changed. Or is that just not true?

[00:04:45] I would, that's a phenomenal subject. Like I would absolutely be so intrigued to see like,

[00:04:51] was it just because it was one of the few areas that females were allowed to kind of,

[00:04:55] you know, you were either a nun or a nurse or, you know, in the 50s and 60s, a secretary or a teacher.

[00:05:02] And that was kind of it. That was the options. Whereas now, obviously we can do anything and

[00:05:08] everything. And for myself, like nursing was never on my radar growing up. I only had one friend whose

[00:05:16] mom was a nurse, but she was public health. So, she was Monday to Friday, eight to four, you know,

[00:05:22] very typical regular hours, not night shifts, not 12 hours. So, I kind of fell into nursing.

[00:05:30] Um, went, started my university degree in actually biology. Um, went to Lakehead University,

[00:05:37] super far up north and hated it. The biology, um, Lakehead is very well known for their forestry

[00:05:46] program up there. And so, a lot of the biology was, was plant-based, which I could not care less

[00:05:52] about. I am the worst at taking care of plants, as my mother and my husband will attest to.

[00:05:57] But, you know, it was the, having a friend who was in the nursing program and we'd pour

[00:06:04] over her textbooks, you know, after classes, I'm like, this is so much more interesting

[00:06:09] than what I'm learning. And, you know, it was the aspect of, yes, helping, um, feeling

[00:06:16] good about what you're doing and, you know, never ending career possibilities. But then it was also,

[00:06:21] there's actually a lot of problem solving and, and puzzles. Like people are living,

[00:06:26] breathing puzzles. And so, especially in the ER, when they come in, we don't know what's,

[00:06:31] what's going on. We have no blood work. We have no imaging. We don't know what's going on. So,

[00:06:36] we're starting at square one and trying to kind of tease out what's going on. So,

[00:06:41] the puzzle aspect personally, I find very, very interesting as well as taking somebody who is,

[00:06:49] you know, literally on death's door and, and changing their whole health trajectory with,

[00:06:56] you know, things like fluids. And you wouldn't think that, you know, some salt water would really

[00:07:01] do all that much, but I've seen it do miraculous things in very, very short amounts of time.

[00:07:08] And so it's kind of, you know, it's a little bit magical when you think about like,

[00:07:12] you know, these medications that we have and the fluids and the time and, you know, different,

[00:07:18] even just different body positions. So if your blood pressure is low, we tilt you on your head

[00:07:22] so that your head perfuses better than the rest of your body. And that brings your blood pressure up.

[00:07:27] And it's the funniest thing. And I'm actually super curious about where that came from, but,

[00:07:31] you know, it's, it's absolutely science and, and science is so interesting, but there's a lot of

[00:07:38] art to it. You know, everybody, you're constantly learning all the different specialties, um,

[00:07:44] all the different areas that, you know, nursing in Canada versus nursing in the United States versus

[00:07:49] nursing in the UK, very different. Um, so I, I would very curious to see what nursing in the States

[00:07:57] would be like, um, especially from the financial aspect of everything and the financial responsibilities

[00:08:02] of not having free healthcare. Um, it petrifies me. I feel so bad for those, you know, you see

[00:08:09] people on their stories going like, Oh, I'm going to have to sell my house because I had a baby. And

[00:08:13] you're like, pardon, that doesn't, that's kind of odd, but you know, it's, it's being able to,

[00:08:20] to step in and, and help. And there's a little bit of a power aspect to it, right? You're,

[00:08:26] you're in a place of power and you know, you are supposed to be respected. Um, obviously people in pain,

[00:08:36] stress, anxiety behave very, very differently than somebody who's not. Um, so it's a little bit

[00:08:43] interesting, but just, you know, the psychology mixed with the medicine mixed with, you know,

[00:08:49] different outcomes, you know, just because you treat A and B patient the exact same way for the

[00:08:53] exact same thing doesn't mean that you're going to get the same outcome. So it's, it's,

[00:08:57] you're always learning and there's always, you know, something going on and something to be learned

[00:09:02] for sure. And that's interesting, isn't it? Because it's almost as if their role is completely changed,

[00:09:07] but the word nurse somehow ties it back to a, it's interesting, you know, it's almost like

[00:09:14] nurses, the smallest bit of the role of a nurse is the traditional old fashioned thing about what

[00:09:19] a nurse did because you've got nurse practitioners who can prescribe and, and, and, and the old idea

[00:09:25] of just actually doing like a personal care service has sort of gone out the window now.

[00:09:29] And it's, and it's odd how the term has stuck, isn't it? Um, and, and you, and you do see in

[00:09:35] certain places that nurse practitioners or whatever it might be called in your country,

[00:09:38] they they've almost got the same power as doctors. And it's interesting. I was thinking about that

[00:09:42] when you were talking about respect and people in pain, often the, the biggest challenge with respect

[00:09:47] is from doctors and from consultants and from surgeons, isn't it? And, and it's, it's, I wonder

[00:09:54] how much they've struggled with the, with the way that the role has changed as well.

[00:09:58] You know, you, you worry, right. With the, with the creation. So nurse practitioners is the

[00:10:04] same as I'm understanding in the UK, as well as the U S where you've got your degree and then

[00:10:09] you've done another you. So in Canada, you've done then your, a year of masters, and then you've also

[00:10:14] done a year certificate to kind of certify in working in the clinic or working in the emerge or whatever

[00:10:20] your role has been. And the explosion of, of people going that route, um, is fantastic because

[00:10:27] really we're just up training those that we've already got. Um, so it's, it's always interesting.

[00:10:34] And sometimes the nurse practitioners, you know, because they've got a background in, you know,

[00:10:40] on the floor nursing, sometimes they've got a little bit of a better feel for how to handle patients and

[00:10:44] how to handle scenarios. Um, and, and they do come at it a very different way sometimes than the

[00:10:50] physicians, not to say that anyone is better than the other, but, um, even still the collaboration

[00:10:57] that I've seen, you know, it's, we're all just happy. The other one's shown up truly like, you know,

[00:11:04] I I'm so happy I've got an ER physician and I get a nurse practitioner. Fantastic. Because really

[00:11:10] 60 to 70% that usually comes into the emergency room could have either gone to their family physician,

[00:11:16] a walk-in clinic or an urgent care center. They didn't necessarily need to come to the emergency,

[00:11:20] um, because it's not a true emergency. So the, the nurse practitioner helps to kind of

[00:11:25] deal with those patients that 60%, um, which is huge. Then that frees up my doc to then really focus on

[00:11:33] the, the much sicker individuals who need a lot more interventions and care and understanding.

[00:11:39] Um, it's, it's hard to like, it's been 16 years. So I do remember stories of like, um, surgeons throwing

[00:11:50] surgical instruments at knives in the OR. Like, uh, there was a pretty big case in the, in Canada

[00:11:57] actually where a surgeon was dating a nurse and he actually murdered her, um, in the hospital,

[00:12:05] no less. Um, yeah. So there was that kind of, I think that was just at the end of when everything

[00:12:12] really did change. Like they really put very strict guidelines, um, about behavior and professionalism

[00:12:18] on the surgeons, you know, it was the start of things changing. I feel like the emergency,

[00:12:24] it's a hundred percent collaborative. Like I can go up to my doc and just be like, Hey,

[00:12:28] like, I don't know what you're thinking about this order, but maybe, you know, do you want to try this

[00:12:32] or that or the other? If not, tell me why please. Cause again, I'm, I'm still figuring it out. Maybe

[00:12:37] I'm missing something that I haven't seen before, or maybe they're just a newer ER physician and I can

[00:12:43] help them kind of, you know, navigate the way, but it's support no matter what. Whereas the OR,

[00:12:49] I feel like it's probably the last place where that kind of mentality where, you know,

[00:12:55] the surgeon is the hierarchy and, and, you know, the scrub nurse and, and the techs and,

[00:13:00] and that kind of thing. You know, I I've never actually worked the OR, so I'm, I'm purely speculating,

[00:13:06] but, um, from some stories that I've heard, I used to work the recovery room. So you'd go to the OR,

[00:13:12] you'd have your surgery, then you'd come to the recovery room and we'd kind of wake you up out

[00:13:16] of sedation. And we'd wait till you're awake enough to then send you back to day surgery

[00:13:20] or back up to the floor if that's where you were going. And, you know, sometimes you got little

[00:13:26] hints of, of ego. Um, not to say that I absolutely do not have an ego also, but you know, you kind of

[00:13:33] just, okay, I see you. I, I'm, I'm picking up what you're putting down and we're, I'm, I'm going to be

[00:13:39] aware of it. I'm going to still be professional, but I'm going to kind of keep a close eye and you

[00:13:43] just, just to be on the safe side of things. So, but for the most part, like the physicians and,

[00:13:51] and working together has, has come leaps and bounds over the last 16 years for sure. Uh, and again,

[00:13:58] like Northern versus Southern, um, working with residents and, and students and, and all the like,

[00:14:04] it's, uh, it's been interesting. You should see a doctor about that. No. Um, so one of the things,

[00:14:15] so one of the, it's not that funny. So one of the things, actually, um, so one of the things

[00:14:24] that's really interesting about, um, the caring professions is this concept of burnout, which was

[00:14:29] invented for the, the, you know, the caring professions. Cause one of the things that Freutenberg

[00:14:33] used to talk about was that you have this inability to care because you lose that degree of empathy.

[00:14:38] You lose that sense of being, um, well, having, having empathy and, you know, rapport and such

[00:14:45] like. So, um, and it's sort of been hijacked by solicitors who just do a lot of hours and then

[00:14:50] tons of cash and everyone, everyone's now got burnout when they're just, you know, feeling a bit

[00:14:53] fancy day off. Yeah. But how do nurses deal with that? Because you, because, because you do have very

[00:14:59] intensive working schedules, working passion patterns, you're seeing a lot of things perhaps

[00:15:05] that should, you know, but human beings shouldn't really be seeing. How do nurses cope with that

[00:15:11] whole concept? It's, it's a, it's a rollercoaster. So I actually was speaking to a group of first

[00:15:19] year students in nursing and the professor kind of said like, oh, just talk for three hours.

[00:15:24] I said, oh my gosh, talk for three hours about what? Oh my gosh, this cough is going to be the

[00:15:30] death of me. No, don't say that. Don't say that. That's the first time I heard a nurse say that a

[00:15:39] cough is going to kill them. It's, uh, you know, so speaking to these students and all of their

[00:15:45] questions. So they're all of a month into their first year, all of their questions were about

[00:15:50] burnout, about resilience, about work-life balance, about how to deal with death, how to deal with grief.

[00:15:55] And they were leap years ahead of, of where those of us who've been working for quite some time

[00:16:03] are. And it's the weirdest thing to go like, how are these, and I want to say kids, but they're not

[00:16:10] kids. Um, you know, how are these young professionals already so aware of what's going on? And yet here we are

[00:16:20] working at day in and day out and, and can't seem to get a grasp on this whole concept of,

[00:16:25] you know, technically this is a job like this is, you know, so there's a lot of people who talk about

[00:16:33] nursing as a calling and a passion and all this. I do believe nursing is a passion. Absolutely. But

[00:16:39] sometimes I hesitate when it comes to the calling portion, because it kind of sets us up in that

[00:16:46] mindset where we feel like we're only doing our job if we give all of ourself. If we say yes to

[00:16:54] everything, you know, we do not say no to extra shifts. We, we get guilted into coming in when we

[00:17:00] don't want to, or are not mentally well enough to do so, or even just rested enough to do so.

[00:17:06] And so, you know, it's one of those things where it's, it's a fine line where, you know, it is,

[00:17:15] is very much a profession and it is built on so much history and, and being predominantly female

[00:17:21] is a, is a huge portion of it. But at the same time, you, you kind of wonder if, because it's,

[00:17:27] has been predominantly female in the past, you know, has that actually worked toward detriment in that,

[00:17:33] you know, we've, we were so used to giving our all that now we were giving it all at home and now

[00:17:39] we're also giving it all at work. Yeah. And so you kind of set yourself up for this, this failure

[00:17:45] because you, you can't do it all. It's, it's absolutely impossible. You need to take time

[00:17:49] away. You need to take time for yourself. Um, it's just one of these things where

[00:17:57] finally saying no, you feel so guilty for, for saying no. And for saying that, you know, I don't

[00:18:05] want to come in tonight or, or you don't pick up the phone and you feel guilty about not picking up

[00:18:09] the phone because then there's a Facebook group where your, you know, your scheduler lives. Oh,

[00:18:14] they're three short tonight. You know, do you really want to leave your buddies, you know,

[00:18:17] high and dry and, and all this kind of stuff. And you're like, oh, there's the guilt aspect where

[00:18:22] you wonder how many other professions guilt is used as a, as a common kind of tactic to get

[00:18:29] people to show up. I highly doubt, um, the police or firefighters or EMS, um, or even just an office

[00:18:39] job is kind of saying, oh, we're really short. We're, we're, you know, I think it's more common

[00:18:44] to be honest. Oh, and again, I don't never worked an office job. I've, I've only done kind of customer

[00:18:52] service through my entire career. So it's interesting to kind of come at it that way.

[00:18:59] You've developed this interesting intuition and, uh, and I think you've written a book called

[00:19:03] nursing intuition. What's, what's, what's the story behind that? So I'm just keep talking for a few

[00:19:07] seconds whilst you, you keep coughing.

[00:19:11] I mean, this darn cough. It's been fine all night. And of course, like, so I just got off of night shift,

[00:19:16] no less. Oh, wow.

[00:19:18] So, so it's like fresh off, you know, having blood on me this morning. And so, so nursing intuition,

[00:19:26] you know, it's one of the, these concepts where, you know, it plays into the art of, of nursing and,

[00:19:33] and the art of caring for people and being exposed to people's most vulnerable spots that they could

[00:19:40] ever be in or ever possibly have been in. And so you get to a point where you're going, okay,

[00:19:47] you know, for some reason, I just don't feel like something is, is right. You know, maybe their vital

[00:19:52] signs are okay. They're the history that you're taking, you know, there's no major red flags about

[00:19:57] what's happened, but for some reason you're, you're just sitting there going like, I don't know,

[00:20:02] but something, something's just very off. And so you like, okay, well now I'm invested.

[00:20:09] Now you've piqued my interest. Here's the puzzle. And so you go, okay, so we've got quite a few

[00:20:15] medical directives in, in Ontario about how you can order a specific amount of blood work before

[00:20:21] the doctor sees the patient or x-rays or a couple of over-the-counter medications that we can give.

[00:20:28] And so I may take some liberties sometimes knowing my physicians to say like, hey, would you be okay if

[00:20:36] I ordered XYZ test on this person just because I'm not quite sure? Like, I think there's a little bit

[00:20:41] more to this where it wouldn't be just a standard test that we order. It is still blood work that we

[00:20:45] would normally order, you know, if we were fully working somebody up, but this person isn't quite

[00:20:50] making that, that threshold. So are you okay if I just add, you know, a couple extra blood tests on

[00:20:55] just to be on the safe side? And the number of times that something's shown up on, on a test where we

[00:21:01] weren't expecting it to. And it, it changes the entire trajectory of how we're now treating that

[00:21:06] patient. So one of my favorite stories is, um, had a little lady who unfortunately had fallen and was

[00:21:14] on the floor for an unknown amount of time at home. EMS was finally called by a neighbor. They came in,

[00:21:20] they picked her up, they brought her into me. Um, and so, you know, just listening to the story,

[00:21:25] I'm like, oh, laying on the floor for an unknown amount of time, like, okay, you know,

[00:21:29] sometimes that can cause muscle breakdown in the elderly. And so with that, you risk, um, damage

[00:21:35] to the kidneys through a specific enzyme. So I'm like, well, why don't I just order that specific

[00:21:39] enzyme? Just cause like, there's not, she looks a little cool. Like she, she feels a little cold.

[00:21:45] Her vitals aren't the greatest, but they're okay. Um, and she's just a little bit, um, altered. So

[00:21:50] she's not, she's a little bit confused where I, the report is she's not normally confused.

[00:21:55] Mm-hmm. So do the blood work. Sure enough, her creatinine kinase, which is this enzyme,

[00:22:00] um, with muscle breakdown is through the roof, which means rhabdomyelosis. And I said, okay,

[00:22:06] now that we know that it's a very simple fix. It's just fluids. It's fluids in a bit of time

[00:22:10] and we can flush all that out of the system and then it won't bog up the kidneys and, and cause

[00:22:16] kidney failure. And so I'm all impressed with myself and I'm excited. Well, doesn't the sun come around

[00:22:23] and say, um, oh, uh, who's the nurse for this, for this lady over here? Oh, I am.

[00:22:29] Well, that's my mom. I said, okay. And he goes, uh, who ordered the CK? I'm like, pardon?

[00:22:35] He goes, who ordered the CK on her? I said, um, I did. He goes, okay. And, and he kind of walks off

[00:22:45] and I go, oh man, I'm going to have my behind handed to me. So I'm, I'm talking with my physician

[00:22:50] and I said, Hey, like, just so you know, the CK is really elevated. Do you want us to start fluids?

[00:22:55] Or how do you want me to proceed? Cause the sun's at the bedside. My physician turns to me and goes,

[00:23:00] oh, that's so-and-so he used to be the director of emergency medicine here. And I'm like, oh,

[00:23:06] I'm going to get fired. Like, I'm going to get fired for this. And, and thankfully he ended up,

[00:23:14] the sun came back and said, you know, just thank you very much for, for, for figuring that out.

[00:23:19] And, uh, and he just kind of walked off. I'm like, uh, am I still going to get fired or am I not going

[00:23:24] to get fired? I don't know what's happening, but it was one of those where it was just, you know,

[00:23:29] the story was just raising a few red flags plus looking at her and feeling that something was off.

[00:23:34] Maybe we just want to expand the blood work a little bit. And sure enough, I was right. And,

[00:23:39] you know, once you get that feeling of being right, I don't know about you, but I'm,

[00:23:45] I really like it. So, you know, it, it kind of begs you to, to go further with it and then,

[00:23:51] you know, dig a little deeper with people and care a little bit more and, and be invested a

[00:23:56] little bit more versus then, you know, just doing the bare minimum with what you've got in a day.

[00:24:01] Um, because a lot of the time we are short staffed and that's just kind of the way it goes.

[00:24:05] And so the number of times it's come up where I have kind of gone a little bit further than,

[00:24:14] um, I normally would have, or somebody's piqued my interest and I've, I've alerted the doc.

[00:24:19] Um, we've been able to intervene at times that, um, potentially could have changed the course of

[00:24:25] their outcomes. Not to say that I haven't been wrong. I absolutely have been wrong a ton of times,

[00:24:30] but it's a learning skill where, you know, it's, it's just another nursing skill to hone and to,

[00:24:37] uh, kind of push and explore with. And some are going to be better than others, but it's,

[00:24:43] it's time we take it out of that 3am conversation because we talk about it all the time at 3am,

[00:24:48] but we don't really talk about it out in the open and, and with management and, and other people

[00:24:54] because it's kind of, you know, it's a woo-woo topic and it's a little, um, it's a little out there.

[00:25:00] So people don't give it much mind, but there's actually so much science to, to back it up and,

[00:25:07] you know, science on nursing and then specifically science, um, supporting intuition and nursing.

[00:25:14] And once I figured that out, I was like, okay, I've got to publish all of this. Like

[00:25:17] it's no longer just a trauma journal that, you know, COVID's pushed me to the edge and this is my

[00:25:22] coping mechanism. Now we need to like, just bring it all out and, and, you know, world be damned.

[00:25:29] We're gonna, we're gonna put it out there.

[00:25:31] And is it written only for nurses or can anybody read it?

[00:25:34] Anybody, anybody can read it. It is like easy enough to read. And then anything, um, that's a

[00:25:40] little medical, I've kind of explained a little bit further. Um, but typically I would think it would

[00:25:46] be for somebody who's newer to nursing. So you might not have all that kind of the lingo down all just that

[00:25:53] yet, but, um, but yeah, there's so many of my ER stories from 16 years and just, you know, so much

[00:26:02] heartbreak and bullying and, and a lot of topics that aren't just nursing specific that are, that are

[00:26:08] covered.

[00:26:09] So, so how do you, how do you begin to deal with things like bullying in the workplace? What's,

[00:26:14] what's, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:26:17] Um, it's a process. Um, my first bully, you know, I put up with it for five years because I was brand

[00:26:24] new and, and didn't really have much other, um, I couldn't really do anything else. She was a superior

[00:26:31] and when I did take it to management, they kind of said, oh, well, that's just her.

[00:26:34] And so that kind of shut me up really quick to say, oh, okay. They, they fully endorse this.

[00:26:40] All right. Well, I'm just going to watch my P's and Q's and, and go on with the day.

[00:26:46] Whereas my second, um, bully,

[00:26:51] excuse me, sorry. Um, you know, it got to the point where I finally actually did say something I'd

[00:26:58] already left the unit, but I'd come back on, on a shift just to help a little bit here and there.

[00:27:04] And had a moment to kind of catch her and say like, Hey, just so you know, the reason why I left

[00:27:10] the unit was you and your behavior. Um, I, I need you to take a real good look at how you interact

[00:27:17] with people. Was it the best way to do things? Probably not. But, you know, I'd already waited

[00:27:23] probably six months at that point by the time I'd already left and come back and ended up on a shift

[00:27:26] with her that, um, I was able to take her aside. We ended up actually, um, the next time I

[00:27:33] picked up a shift, sure enough, she was on also. So she and I kind of like went into the, um,

[00:27:39] recess bay and talked it out and ended up crying and hugging. And I'm still a little shocked by that,

[00:27:45] but you know, ended up resolving it, which was really good. And then third bully, um, you know,

[00:27:54] she had, she was charged nurse. I was just working in the back, um, caring for about eight patients or so

[00:28:01] with a colleague and she had come back and screamed at me in front of, you know, on a day shift in the

[00:28:08] middle of this very open room. Um, many people around the exterior of that room had also heard her yell.

[00:28:15] So I immediately took it to my, my manager and said, Hey, this is what's going on. Uh, waited

[00:28:22] about a month. My manager finally came back to me to say like, Hey, do you want to talk about it? I

[00:28:26] said, you know what? I know that she's newer to charge. I know that was a stressful day. I know

[00:28:31] that there was a lot of like interpersonal dynamics going on with her. I'm going to let it go.

[00:28:37] Not a few hours later, doesn't she do the exact same thing again on shift in the midst of everybody.

[00:28:44] And so I'm like, Nope, we're having, we're having a meeting. So end up having a meeting with my

[00:28:50] manager and her. And for some reason or another, because I was newer to the unit, then obviously

[00:28:56] my coworker, um, it kind of got flipped on its head and they're like, Oh, well, we're worried about

[00:29:01] your practice and how you're doing things. And I'm like, pardon? Like, why aren't we talking about

[00:29:06] the way that she screamed at me twice in one month in front of all of my patients and their family

[00:29:13] members? Like, so consider that, you know, therapeutic nurse client relationship blown to

[00:29:17] bits. Um, but we're not gonna, we're not going to deal with this. Okay. Point taken. Guess what?

[00:29:25] I'm just going to go. So that's right. You know, it ended up being, I figured out actually writing

[00:29:31] the book that anytime I actually came up against a bully, if I had the option to go, I left. Um,

[00:29:38] and I didn't realize that I was doing that. I thought, Oh, I was just jumping jobs, you know,

[00:29:42] one year here, one year there, one year there. I thought I was just doing it because I just needed

[00:29:47] to change a pace and, and it wasn't quite the right ER and there was a different one available and it

[00:29:51] was all within the same health system. So I was able to kind of swap around and looking back and going

[00:29:58] like, no, it actually, it was the bullies. That's, that's why I left. Um, because being bullied

[00:30:05] so badly the first five years, I was, it wasn't going to happen again. I wasn't going to put up

[00:30:10] with it again. Um, I had the opportunity to leave. So I did. And that's the option that I took.

[00:30:16] Very good. So, um, where will people find the book? How can they get their, their paws on it?

[00:30:22] Yeah. So it's on Amazon for pre-order currently, uh, for the ebook, the hardcover and the, um,

[00:30:30] softcover will be out. I'm hoping October 29th, but, um, the universe has decided to mess with me

[00:30:38] once more to say that, haha, we thought you were done waiting. We're my editor is continuing to

[00:30:43] edit. And now she said that, Oh, you actually need a typesetter. So that's a whole other person to pay

[00:30:49] as well as time to wait. So I'm like, okay, so maybe mid November by the time, by the time the book

[00:30:56] actually comes out, but it's been three years of waiting. And, you know, I had a traditional

[00:31:02] publisher, waited two years with them. They had started editing and then they decided, um, about

[00:31:08] four or five months before it was set to be released that they were going to give me my rights back,

[00:31:14] um, because they were going to go back to physiotherapy books. So, you know, everything

[00:31:18] happens for a reason. I don't think I would have pushed as hard during those two years to kind of, um,

[00:31:24] get out there and build, um, kind of a LinkedIn platform and a Facebook platform and, and Instagram

[00:31:32] and TikTok and all that without kind of feeling like, Oh, I'm a tradition. I'm a traditionally

[00:31:37] published author, you know? Um, so now I will be self-publishing.

[00:31:44] And why not? That's where you make all the money. Well, look, it's been an absolute joy. So the book's

[00:31:51] called Nursing Intuition and, um, it should be out. I don't know when this podcast goes out, but it may

[00:31:56] well be that, um, it's out already or it may well not quite be out, but have a look on Amazon.

[00:32:01] It sounds like it's packed full of interesting stories and tips and techniques and such like,

[00:32:06] so that's absolutely brilliant. So thank you so much for spending time with us today. I really loved it.

[00:32:09] Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. No problem. You take care.

[00:32:17] Hi, thanks for listening. Hopefully that was a useful and interesting episode.

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