Ben Kirk - Resilience and accountability to 'win the day'

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[00:01:11] Hey and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and I'm delighted to be talking to my next guest

[00:01:18] for all sorts of different reasons but it's always nice as a Brit to have in front of them,

[00:01:24] someone from the other side of the world in Australia. So how are you? Because it must be

[00:01:30] a goodness knows what time in the evening for you now so how are you doing?

[00:01:33] Yes it is it is the other side of the world. It is half past nine here in Adelaide South

[00:01:38] Australia. We had a beautiful warm day maybe in contrast to what you might be experiencing

[00:01:44] at the moment. Rubbered in, why don't you know that is lovely warm and sunny in us. Is it

[00:01:48] shrimp on the Barbie or whatever it is? It's called down there. Not quite but there have

[00:01:54] been lots of stakes in the Barbie. Stakes on the Barbie, that's what it is. Shrimps would

[00:01:58] fall through the things that's what it's worth. Well it's a real delight to talk to you and

[00:02:02] especially from years so far away it's just amazing isn't it? You can have this conversation.

[00:02:06] I mean I know it's terrible that we all know about technology and we know that we've

[00:02:12] known about the fact that technology gets nowhere ever resilient such like but my goodness it

[00:02:16] gives us opportunity to to negotiate you know to network and talk to other people in different places so

[00:02:23] it's interesting isn't there's no such thing as a bad thing. The thing is our reaction to that

[00:02:28] thing isn't that really? Yes yes. Tell us about yourself Ben. Yes thanks yes I'm in Australia actually

[00:02:35] back in Australia for about 10 years. I spent 10 years in Sweden. My wife's Swedish, my kids were

[00:02:42] all born over there and if we're talking about resilience certainly going to a foreign country not

[00:02:47] speaking much of the language even they do speak fantastic English. I think to really unsanitary

[00:02:51] culture you need to know their local language as well but yeah I had to completely reinvent myself

[00:03:00] over there when I went over as a personal trainer managed to do all right with that but it was

[00:03:04] running with five different jobs at the same time just trying to find different versions of income

[00:03:10] to support the family. Flipping apartments, it really tested us over there for 10 years and

[00:03:18] I learned a lot about myself, learned a lot about how to motivate my personal training clients

[00:03:23] but also a lot about business and struggling as an entrepreneur or builder or those sort of things

[00:03:29] at the same time as well so amazing times but yeah move back to Australia 10 years ago

[00:03:36] and it's been wonderful being back. How did the kids come back with you? Yes absolutely

[00:03:44] and they've loved it and thrived here as well so we have a beach lifestyle, schools are great

[00:03:51] they all came back here once they were ready to start schools of course in Sweden they have a fantastic

[00:03:58] daycare program and everything there as well but we came back once they could start school when

[00:04:02] it's been wonderful. They are bilingual, I'm you know conversationaly, fluent I guess you could say

[00:04:08] in Swedish it's been about secret language one of the things that we've brought back with us

[00:04:12] but yeah lifestyle he's been being brilliant and but do still have a very fun place in my heart for

[00:04:18] Sweden and certainly through Europe as well and people I think generally underestimate the advantages

[00:04:25] for early travel and learning different languages and the neuroplasticity that generates

[00:04:31] and one often finds this enhancement of life chances with people who've had that those are

[00:04:37] early experiences working in different culture in a different world because I think we can tend to

[00:04:42] focus on safety and protection and caution to the extent of you know planned risk taking

[00:04:49] and I think the point is in life it's about living your life rather than actually sort of being

[00:04:56] so worried about life that you don't actually achieve much but you've been always safe but you've

[00:05:00] not really lived the whole life that's not what you think about that. Yeah yeah certainly one thing

[00:05:05] that was most interesting with going to Sweden was that you think oh it's a Western society

[00:05:11] it's gonna be just like going from Australia to there I mean they've got the same I mean okay they

[00:05:16] drive on the wrong side of the road but for us anyway right but you know it's the same sort of

[00:05:22] people eat similar things do similar nine to five jobs reasonably wealthy society but actually how

[00:05:30] different it was going over there and understand the people the way they operate there in many cases more

[00:05:38] security focus more risk adverse on some things the way that entrepreneurship at least back then

[00:05:47] was we did quite have the same opportunities as what we might have in I'm certainly here in Australia

[00:05:53] and what I've learned from America as well for entrepreneurship and signing around business and

[00:05:57] side hustles and things like that so there's definitely a big change of perspective I think and

[00:06:04] for the kids to experience that over there and I guess the comfort and security to come to Australia

[00:06:11] where yeah I mean sure it's a very secure country right but there's slightly different mindsets

[00:06:16] of people and opportunity as well and the small things that can drop out trees and kill you in Australia

[00:06:21] I mean we all know that yeah you look out for those job fairs so you went back and you've started

[00:06:28] your own business you started to work again and you know as we you know we as we experience in life

[00:06:34] we have we have setbacks so tell us about some of the setbacks you've experienced maybe how you've

[00:06:39] got through them certainly so while I was actually in Sweden I was helping work with an international

[00:06:48] startup I actually helped with a few international startups at the time and we learned along that

[00:06:55] journey of taking something towards sales and towards selling that particular project and how

[00:07:03] when we start dealing with large corporations and legal and the power of large corporations

[00:07:10] and individuals how the result you might be looking for isn't quite the one that you end up getting

[00:07:17] and where one could look at that and it said well had that gone the way I expected I would be

[00:07:23] sitting on a beach somewhere right now well and kicking back and have the life planned out in front of us

[00:07:31] that didn't occur that said I probably wouldn't actually be doing that because I can't help but keep

[00:07:36] doing these things that I love and keep working but that setback and that bounce back from that

[00:07:42] taking the lessons learned from that and also how I can work with now coming back to Australia

[00:07:47] working as a business and executive sort of coaching how I can take those business lessons and

[00:07:54] those feelings that learning to trust your gut learn is something feels too good to be true

[00:07:59] probably years and those sort of things are taking those lessons and then passing them on for me

[00:08:03] that's been a big part of bouncing back from those bad deeds and that's just one of several that we

[00:08:09] learned along the way and yeah for me I guess that's one big part of it I unfortunately can't

[00:08:16] name any names on this or what the enterprise was but it was certainly a huge hit and

[00:08:24] one thing to say is I didn't spend the money before I had it so that wasn't a major concern there

[00:08:31] but yeah that entrepreneur or journey I think a lot of people experience similar as well

[00:08:35] and I think what you've brought out there is something I passionately believe in which is that

[00:08:40] resilience is much about learning is about coping because actually part of what you're doing is when

[00:08:45] if you are bouncing back or forward of whatever the terminology that is that you use it's okay to

[00:08:50] make mistakes but it's not great it's not that wise to make the same mistakes over again and it's

[00:08:54] it's a sign of moving forward to make different mistakes because it's saying that you're doing

[00:08:58] something even if you're not getting it right but I think I think and you know you were chatting

[00:09:03] out you know I was chatting before the show and I'm a massive fan of accountability and I'm

[00:09:07] a massive fan of that accountability that says I got this wrong this was down to me therefore I

[00:09:12] can learn the lesson and I think if we explain if you link accountability to learning I can't

[00:09:18] say there was two sides of the same coin because with that accountability you can't learn and without

[00:09:23] learning you never learn anything about yourself and the accountability that you need so

[00:09:28] I'm interested to know how you'd link those two things together yourself

[00:09:32] yeah thanks it's um it's a bit of a new niche that I've started going down this accountability

[00:09:38] coaching niche it's something I've drawn a lot from work as a personal trainer because people got

[00:09:44] results because they showed up to you three times a week because they paid for it first of all but

[00:09:48] you were there driving them through their workouts and as a business and executive coach I was

[00:09:54] meeting people once a month or once a fortnight and I felt that there just wasn't enough time between

[00:10:00] calls to capture those lessons and those learning moments and then applying them straight away if

[00:10:07] any of us two weeks or one month and so what I've started to do is have very short calls every week

[00:10:13] with my clients 15 or 20 minutes but we do this in a weekly review process where we take what worked

[00:10:19] what didn and what can we and essentially what can we implement and do about it in the following week

[00:10:24] this sort of weekly review process and that is where that learning and that bouncing back comes in and

[00:10:29] every week you're not going to win the week every week you're not going to win the day every day

[00:10:34] but if we do a review process we can look at what was it that went wrong what was the obstacle is

[00:10:39] this something that is happening consistently is this the same issue that's happening time and time

[00:10:43] again how are we going to take those lessons and of course we can bring in our the business experience

[00:10:48] and all that sort of stuff to enable someone to you know to give them maybe other experiences or

[00:10:54] or lessons that we've learned and mentor them through that but it's that review process and

[00:10:58] that learning that ties in that that that that closing the loop that is that is so important

[00:11:04] and of course they all tie into to goals and things like that as well and so if we can show people

[00:11:09] that they are chipping away towards their goal even if they have a small setback that they can maybe

[00:11:14] two steps forward one step back over time they're still chipping away and achieving that goal

[00:11:19] and then when they're applying all those lessons learned from the missteps then we're probably going

[00:11:23] to start to get an exponential improvement towards that goal in the second third or something

[00:11:29] like that of that period yes I mean it's interesting isn't it because you're talking about

[00:11:34] sort of style of coaching that's quite interactive quite directed and a lot of people like coaches

[00:11:40] who are very non-directive you know so all these chin chin strokeers and these so the ums and aras

[00:11:47] and such like it's never been my particular desire to be in that neck of the world but I you

[00:11:51] you you seem to be indicating that your style is an interactive in there you know um I was going

[00:11:58] to say you know pointy elbows you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:12:01] been challenging I wanted to say confrontation about I mean in the general sense of the word

[00:12:05] not the physically threatening sense of the word but that helping people confront their issues

[00:12:10] because I mean that's for me a vital part of coaching isn't it yeah we have to tackle them head

[00:12:15] on I am known as that person who asked those direct questions

[00:12:19] um the person that holds their feet the flames the person that is like that drill sergeant that

[00:12:23] is that calls people out when they're making excuses and so hey that you know that that reason

[00:12:29] you just gave me that was an excuse why was it an excuse because you had control over that a

[00:12:33] reason is something you got no control over this you had control over that's an excuse and I'm not

[00:12:38] afraid to ask those questions and I mean I do it in that um and old mentor told me you've got to

[00:12:44] care too much just to be nice so the idea I do it we love but we do it because we have a goal

[00:12:51] that without we are trying to achieve and so yeah the pointy elbows do come out then the knife

[00:12:56] hand might come out um but through the different uh career roles that that that I've had and my training

[00:13:03] that's just saying this come out it's giving permission now to be direct because we we have 15 to 20

[00:13:09] minutes I mean if we had an hour session often it was the final 15 minutes where we talked about

[00:13:13] next steps that things got pointed anyway we just cut out a lot of that I believe the people tend to

[00:13:18] know what they should do maybe they need a prod in the right direction to actually implement it and

[00:13:23] and and move on that so how do you deal with things like and I mean lots of people experiences

[00:13:28] nothing to all people who need accountability of the people who suffer procrastination issues

[00:13:34] or overly perfectionist to take things how do you uh without giving away on your trade secrets how

[00:13:39] do you sort of uh rock those nuts yes well it's been quite interesting I initially thought that the

[00:13:45] people that would come to me are the the chronic procrastinators or the perfectionists um I actually

[00:13:51] have a lot of hyperformers that come to me that are just looking to eat more out of their day but they

[00:13:54] need to have someone to report to us such because they can't report to their business partner they can't

[00:13:59] take the problems home to their wives uh so they need that third party that they that they trust

[00:14:04] uh that they can bounce the ideas off so I've got once um subsection of my clients like that but yes

[00:14:10] I get the people that need to that may have ADHD or that may just have this chronic procrastination

[00:14:17] and the way that we do that is talking a lot about habits and routines talking a lot about where are

[00:14:22] they in the situation um are they where they procrastinate at their desk what are the triggers

[00:14:28] that send this off for me procrastination is the is the the length of the step between making a

[00:14:33] decision to do something and then actually implementing it the making the decision is coming part

[00:14:37] from the planning and the longer that gap is from the planning to the implementation is where

[00:14:41] procrastination can see in if we can set an intention immediately at the from the point of the

[00:14:47] planning to what that next step is we find a big we can shrink that gap between it people have more

[00:14:52] chance of implementing and if that's a report to someone who's going to call them out they don't do it

[00:14:57] and ask a few pointed questions as to why we start to break that down and often just having

[00:15:02] that person a report to really helps with it uh but we certainly go into a lot of the sort of

[00:15:06] habits and routines I look at triggers um and then the other part of it is clarity we've got to

[00:15:12] get clarity and clarity is another question technique that we just keep asking why or why do you think

[00:15:16] like that what's the reason behind that and getting absolute clarity on their goals and then on

[00:15:21] their next steps and if we need to break those next steps down into the very smallest thing that

[00:15:26] you can actually do that you know that you will do like in general habit theory of breaking it down

[00:15:31] of the smallest amount those are the things that start to get the breakthrough in those areas yeah

[00:15:36] and it seems inconceivable to people that you'd be running your own business but you need this

[00:15:40] sort of support but actually if you think about it it's obvious that when you set up your own

[00:15:44] business if you haven't had formal training and come out of a huge bangle actor organization which are

[00:15:49] the very people that tend not to accept the role of businesses of course if you tend to come out

[00:15:53] of a technical area or a small company mentality or a family business and it's that idea that you

[00:15:58] actually do need so much of a report to because actually it's it's a massive part of your it's a

[00:16:04] massive part of personal development that you don't get when you work on your own so you end up just

[00:16:09] being the sum total of all you can be rather than sum total you know if you're working a big

[00:16:14] organisation of what everyone can be and that's and I think that's where the coach comes in isn't

[00:16:19] they're bringing their expertise and you know I have my own coach who's talking to them yesterday

[00:16:25] and you know they just said oh I'll use this and oh I've never heard of that what's that

[00:16:30] and it's well it's this so we just went online I had a look at it and I thought blindy it's that

[00:16:34] I've never heard of that and it's yes so the coach can bring things you've never heard of

[00:16:40] but and but like I'm also do what you've also talked about there which is that this person knows

[00:16:44] the answer but they've never had the real experience of doing it enough times to say yeah that's

[00:16:49] the one and I think sometimes those two things do cause a procrastination put aside these

[00:16:54] psychological more jumbo for a second sometimes it is simply to do with knowledge and competence

[00:17:00] isn't that yeah and sometimes just give them permission to take action and that the it is an 80%

[00:17:06] solution that they currently have but that is better than not then taking no action at all at your 100

[00:17:11] percent solution and giving them that confidence in hey you do have the ability let me ask a few more

[00:17:16] questions to help you get clarity on it and let's just put that next step step in place because

[00:17:21] if you when you do that you get feedback yeah and you get feedback on that next step and then you know

[00:17:25] the next step the step up that's going to be better because you've got that you've got that feedback

[00:17:30] but the other part of the equation is also that people now there's a lot of work from home

[00:17:34] and people don't have connection they don't have that workplace in workplace environment either

[00:17:40] and so they also feel that you know social beings we do need people to be able to bounce ideas

[00:17:44] up we do need people to be able to talk to confiding and and that are also there to support us

[00:17:49] and push us so find a find more and more than that now too very good and I'm guessing as I do

[00:17:55] that you have your own coach so how did you get the best out of your coach well I've gone through

[00:18:04] a few coaches and part of the reason is that I think in many cases what I'm looking for is a lot

[00:18:10] of what I do and so I now have a selection of coaches for certain areas and they speak to me in

[00:18:20] much the same way I've structured it in much the same way that I deal with my clients I need something

[00:18:26] short sharp I need someone to hold me accountable with that but bring in your expertise in marketing

[00:18:33] or bring in your expertise in those finer elements of coaching questioning

[00:18:38] bringing those expertise on how I can now grow my business and leverage what I do

[00:18:44] so I have a selection because I wasn't able to find just one coach that was able to bring me all

[00:18:49] of those those elements and I'm absolutely comfortable with that and there's very rarely conflicting

[00:18:56] advice I mean at the end of the day the coaches don't tell you what to do you're the one that makes

[00:19:01] that decision they're trying to uncover your skills and your desire to move to the next step

[00:19:09] yeah yeah it's absolutely absolutely key um fascinating and I think it's interesting is

[00:19:15] reflecting on this that as coaches ourselves we don't see ourselves as these one stop solution

[00:19:20] to everybody as well so I think sometimes you'll talk to people and say oh well I also talk to

[00:19:26] this person about this and they've said that and that's fantastic you know let's talk let's all

[00:19:30] talk together about that because because actually you want as a leader you need that diversity of

[00:19:36] thought but without what you do need I like what you're doing is almost see set yourself up as the

[00:19:41] person that says well actually go over there talk to all those coaches whatever you want bring all those

[00:19:46] sources of input together now let's actually make it work so that's that's right that's right

[00:19:50] that's it isn't it yeah implementation um many of my top clients have rather large businesses

[00:19:56] they have mentors they might have a strategic coach or or a leadership coach and then I'm down

[00:20:03] to the implementation the week by week implementation part of it and that's where my style tends to work

[00:20:10] best I mean yeah obviously business coach but I'm not that business see I do like working with

[00:20:15] executives as an executive coach until about leadership and that those style of things but I just

[00:20:20] love to see people with implementing so I like it love it how do people find out more about you

[00:20:28] do you have a site yeah social media you can take things help what can we do yeah probably the best

[00:20:32] place is is win the day.com.au that the dotau there is for Australia the welcome to connect with me

[00:20:39] on LinkedIn um win the day on LinkedIn will probably bring up a business site uh Ben Kirk you can

[00:20:45] find me the on LinkedIn love to get some connections uh and keep the conversation going really

[00:20:50] on many of the topics that I talk about their accountability resilience productivity

[00:20:56] really gained some great some great interactions there yeah brilliant oh well it's been an

[00:21:00] absolute joy to talk to you today and we've spent 20 minutes and hopefully people have learned some

[00:21:05] stuff which is exactly what you said at the beginning. Well I certainly hope they do it's about

[00:21:10] for now for them implementing what they've learned from this and what review practices they can put

[00:21:15] in so that they can uh learn and grow on a daily or a weekly basis fantastic and let me just to say

[00:21:22] about um uh in an English accent win the day dot com dotau just so we've got that because uh

[00:21:28] just no no there's nothing and of course that'll be linked on the show notes and everything just

[00:21:33] gives everybody's frantically trying to punch in addresses on them all by the month um well it's

[00:21:40] been absolute joy to talk to you today it's been absolutely fascinating any last last thoughts that

[00:21:45] you want to leave people with uh just actually how important that weekly review process is if they don't

[00:21:52] have something in place um there's there's multiple people that are posting about weekly review but

[00:21:57] take the time to look at what work during the week what didn't work and take those lessons and apply

[00:22:03] them the following week time block them in if you if you need to time make notes of what is working for

[00:22:08] you that is going to help you get the resilience and the adaptability the growth uh uh over the long

[00:22:15] term so I just would love to encourage people to do that whether it's a Friday at the end of work or

[00:22:19] whether it's a Sunday hey well that's how you deliver closing homily I love it fantastic um it's been

[00:22:26] a joy to talk to you thanks very much for your time you take care

[00:22:30] wonderful thank you

[00:22:34] hi everybody I hope you found that episode useful and interesting feedback is a was welcomed

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[00:23:22] your ear next time around take care