Colleen Slaughter - Bolder leadership

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[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled. And with me today, Colleen Slaughter. Hi Colleen,

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: how are you? Hi Russell, I'm doing great. I'm happy to be with you. Yeah, so Colleen, I'm listening to

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: your wonderful accent and I'm imagining you sitting in the middle of America somewhere, enjoying the American

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: lifestyle and the American dream. Is that the case? It is absolutely not. I'm enjoying the American

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: dream in the sense of going after my dream. That's something very American about me that one of the

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: things I love is having a vision and just going for it. Actually, though in terms of geography,

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sitting in France toward the middle of France. I'm in Lyon and I did create a life here over 20

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: years ago, although I haven't been here the whole 20 years. Yeah. So, what made you come to France? I

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: mean, tell us a bit about your background. How did you make a decision? It's a long way to uproot.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It is a long way, especially given I grew up in Kentucky and most people, hilarious, especially in

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: France. They'll say, oh, Kentucky fried chicken, right? Because there just really aren't that many

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: people from Kentucky that choose to go abroad or stay abroad more than the very famous

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: US American way of traveling, which is two days in Paris, two days in London, two days in Rome,

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and then back home, right? The best way I can describe it, if I were summarizing it, is intuition

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and courage. So, growing up, actually coming from pretty lower class family, single parent family,

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: but I always felt this pull to come to France. And so, when I was a sophomore in college,

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: university, she would say in the UK, there just was an opportunity to combine both of my undergraduate

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: degrees, which were business and then French, by coming to Paris for a semester and doing a business

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: internship while I was also studying at a university in Paris, the Dauphin, just to improve my French.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was incredibly difficult. Talk about being out of my comfort zone, never had left the US,

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: had never lived in an international city. And there I was doing both at the same time.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Needless to say, as we know, when we step out of our comfort zone, it just means we're growing,

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: right? We're in discomfort, but we're also learning a lot. And so, by the end of that semester, I was

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: like, oh my gosh, my whole mindset, my whole life has shifted. But then it was time to go back to

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Kentucky. So, I was really able to see the contrast and then able to eventually get a plan where I stayed

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: here longer term.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So, that's interesting. So, you said initially you were drawn to Paris, drawn to France. Sorry.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So, tell me a bit about that. How did you know you were drawn to it?

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, great question. Well, I could not have said this then, but I know this now.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: My body lit up. Every time I heard about it, every time. And then there's different piece of literature.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you're aware of things like the body keeps the score, the body never lies, right?

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty common now, at least in different circles. But when I would hear about France,

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I would see pictures of something in France. My whole body would light up and I would just know,

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd feel almost like a magnet pulling me. When I was in grade school, because in the US,

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: we're historically known for being, well, I'll use the word ignorant when it comes to other parts of

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the world. And also, that translates into foreign languages. So, most of us don't start learning a

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_01]: language traditionally, at least in my generation, not until high school. So, 14 years of age. And at

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: my high school, the choices were German, Spanish, or French. And there was just no,

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: there was no choice to make. I knew for sure it'd be French. And that's, that's the best way I can

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: describe it. Just, just a knowing with a capital K. And I have a teacher that says we never, ever,

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. And she keeps going, right? Dismiss and knowing. I didn't know that at the

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_01]: time, but I seem to have this inner world that will harass me until I do what it wants me to do.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, that's one example. Yeah.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing. It is interesting. And you're not the first person I've met who's talked about

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that sort of, I mean, some people call it calling. Some people call it some sort of spiritual

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: underpinning. Some people, I mean, it doesn't matter what you call it.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more regular than you might imagine. And it's quite interesting, isn't it? Because,

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it must be quite hard for you to imagine someone who doesn't have that sort of sense of

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: being lit up at an idea like that. You know, being bereft of that. I mean, does that make sense?

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It does. You mean having that inner navigation system, being, but not having that?

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. I imagine not having it. It'd be quite interesting, isn't it?

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I would argue that we all have it. Okay. And not all of us connect with it. Either because,

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: for example, I work with a lot of wonderful engineers. So, this is not an anti-engineer.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I love engineers. But as an example, engineers are literally taught in engineering school not to trust

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: their intuition, that it's all about the facts. That's one example. Because I've actually worked

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: with women engineers in particular, but not only, to not dismiss that, but to add intuition on as an

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: additional leadership trait. Right? The other thing, and I will name what is not often talked about,

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's true. Anytime any of us has active addictions, and it doesn't, it's not limited

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to drugs or alcohol. There's so many different kinds, right? And I can raise my hand.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: When we're active in it, that gets in the way of connecting in with ourselves.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? So, and it could even just be, you know, obsessing about another person or that, for example.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So, those are reasons why we wouldn't connect in. And it's also a muscle, as we know,

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that we need to practice listening to and developing. And so, I notice I'm a whole lot more serene,

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: to your point. I'm so much happier when I'm just connecting in. I just came from a

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: whirlwind trip. It was wonderful. I got to meet so many cool people, reconnect with family and

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: friends. And it was really heartwarming. And I couldn't wait to just have time to myself to connect

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: back in. Right? It's just where it's my superpower today.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I think that sort of introversion, sometimes it's called introversion. There's lots of different

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: terms for what you're describing. But it's, but it is interesting, isn't it? Because

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it's an interesting theory you're talking about here, that everybody has that sort of sense of

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: purpose or that sense of calling, whatever it might be. But either it's trained out of us,

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: or we literally don't listen to it. Or culturally, it's not acceptable. And I guess a lot of people

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: spend their entire lives then sort of searching for meaning, searching for purpose. And actually,

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: especially in the therapeutic world, people talk to me about things like, I don't know who I am.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's quite a common thing. And I think, and I know we both work in the world of leadership.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's fascinating, isn't it? Because people end up almost finding themselves

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: through the concept of leadership. So I just wondered what you thought about that.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, that's why I feel like home working in it as well.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And it all depends on our definition of leadership, right? There are a lot of different

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: definitions out there. It's a very wide, end quote, theme. But I found that a lot of people

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: mix up what I consider to be manager and leader. Yeah. And I would say, at least the way I practice and

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_01]: hopefully share about it. Leadership is so much more than a role or title or higher level of hierarchy,

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: right? It's mostly about a mindset. And so absolutely, through leadership, it is what I would

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: say a good leadership program, a very worth its weight, is one that has individuals investigate

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: ourselves, right? And really become curious about ourselves, be willing to feel uncomfortable,

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: not because I wish pain or discomfort on anyone, but it's just part of the human thing that

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that's what helps us discard what we don't need, right? That part of the process. So absolutely would

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: agree with you that leadership can be a way in. And it's not only business leadership. Again, there are

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of people that are leaders, very much so in their lives, just by role modeling who they are,

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: without necessarily having a title or status to go with it.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you're right. And when you, I think if you put leadership to Google, it is one of

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the most over-search terms and has, you know, because it has that semantic degradation of being

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: now a meaningless word, really. And it is quite interesting, sort of trying to think about leadership.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But, and I always think the best definition I ever heard was a good leader is someone who has

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: followers. But, but, but that does go against the idea of self-leadership. And I think sometimes

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're not, and I think often we think about leadership as being something you do to others,

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: something which is done to, rather than saying, it's about figuring out who you are and where

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going and then inviting people to join you in the trip. And, and I think that's probably

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because there are a lot of structured training leadership programs, which are quite academic

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and not necessarily grounded in reality. It's tricky, isn't it? Cause I mean, a lot of the,

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of the ideas around leadership are either coming out of the military or academia. And it is

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: odd to see there's a sort of a lack of innovation about leadership coming out of business.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, you know, a big part of my draw to working with organizations, by the way,

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'll circle back to what you're saying is because organizations have so much weight in the world,

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: right? There's just, they have a lot of power like it or not. I mean, money leads to a lot of

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: influence, right? It just does. And so when we can help people one individual at a time,

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: remember who they really are and step into those even more strongly into those higher level values,

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it, it has a trickle effect. And then we have all of a sudden a better team of, and not just better,

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in terms of impact, right? Which is a word we hear a lot. Although I will say that's a good

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: selling point, not selling for me to make money or you to make, I mean, selling like for them to buy

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: into such a program, right? Because we can't just say your people will be better people today in

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: today's world. That's not enough for people to, for companies to want to invest. Right.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But nonetheless, it's a win, win, win because they become better people. Ooh, by the way,

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the team is better. The company gets better, right? It's doing better things in the world,

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: but there are so many companies and I'd say national cultures. I noticed this also can have an effect

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that are soulless, right? And so the fact that leadership coming out of a company, I'm not sure

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: would be a phrase or an idea that I would support personally, right? Because again, my personally,

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: what I've seen to be the most impactful leaders are those who truly want to do good in the world

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that live in alignment with higher level values. What are those values? Things like compassion,

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: humility, forgiveness, wisdom that are much more about the we, we, we, we versus the me, me, me,

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: me, right? Whereas most of us can look around at any organization and see a lot of the me, me, me,

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: me. We just do, but that's part of the human journey, right? Is like shutting our ego and,

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and getting back into who we really are. So to your point, I think personally, I think where the best

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: leadership ideas come from are people that have really been willing to go through that journey.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And when, you know, we can call it Joseph Campbell, refer to it as the hero's journey.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: The theory you, and all of a sudden he's a German at MIT and his name is escape alter Schammer. There

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: we go. He wrote about theory you and going through the bottom of the you for those who might know that,

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: right? That's similar to Joseph Campbell's dark night of the soul. It doesn't have to be a big drama

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: weeks and months of darkness. It doesn't mean that it could be a few minutes, right? I'm confusion,

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: but the idea is all of a sudden we have a different mindset than we did before. And so we see ourselves

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: in the world differently. And I think those people who are willing to learn about themselves and shift

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the way they see themselves and others, they're all about leadership as far as I can, I can see.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting. Yeah. All right. As an academic, one of the things in part and part of doctoral

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: philosophy is, is the concept of epistemology and ontology. And many young researchers struggle with

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: both terms. And one of those ones, the theory of why, and one's the theory of being. And I saw,

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you've, and I guess I'll say what you've done on your website is you've sort of run with one

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: of those. So I quite like the fact that you've, you've turned the concept into a metaphor and gone

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: with it. So do you want to unpack that a bit for us, please? About, about when you say the theory of

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: being, yeah. Well, first of all, ontology speaks to me very much. So I did coaching school at Newfield,

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: the Newfield network, which is all about ontology, right? The way of being. And I completely,

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I've worked with some of the best, not only, right? I'm not saying they're the only ones,

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but some of the best leadership minds in the world by being strongly affiliated through the McKinsey

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: network, for example. And, and what I've seen to be true, what I've seen to be the most impactful

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: is by first focusing on our way of being it's first being then doing the knowing. If we look at

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: three concentric circles. And so what in the world does being mean? It means becoming self-aware. So

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: we go a bit again, back to this idea of leadership being huge as a topic, but if we built it, if we

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: shrunk it down into three steps, the first one is awareness. Okay. I become aware of something you,

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: now we always recommend and not just me, that's why I'm saying this, but let me talk about,

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I recommend colleagues recommend first leading self. And again, never in a way that's me, me, me, me,

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but in a way that I cannot get what I don't have. And just to bring in one of my favorite resilience,

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: since this is about resilience examples, my girls, my children know that mommy better go do her yoga

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: because she's a much nicer mommy after. Right. And so taking care of myself for the sake of showing up

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: better in my other roles, right. That's more of a, we, we, we, we, that's the whole leading self,

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: being able to role model, being able to co-create the culture that, that works best for the team,

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: for example, and then it's leading team and then it's leading others. Right. So that awareness

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: of self, of team, of other people, then it's making a choice. So that's important because there's so much

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: power in choice. And by the way, also making the distinction between decision and choice decision

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: can be of the mind, very rational, not cutting it out. It's can be very important, but heart,

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but choice also brings in heart. So this has meaning for me. This is something I observe

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: through awareness. I do want to shift because I don't want to be that kind of person anymore.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, I want to create something different in the team now or in the organization.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So we make a choice, awareness choice. And then the third one is ownership,

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_01]: ownership of what, of our choice. And so we own through a commitment to practice.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's all linked with neuroscience, right? That of course we can't just, I think it was Bruce.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Why do I forget this in the moment of the podcast? Karate person. I was even going to say Bruce Willis.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not Bruce Willis or Bruce Springsteen. Karate. It's on the tip of my tongue. Sorry.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It'll come back to you when you don't think. It'll come back when I'm not trying. Exactly.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But he says it's not in the moment of stress that we rise to the occasion. It's because we've

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_01]: built that muscle up all along. Right. And it's just like the karate kid, wax on, wax off, wax on,

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: wax off. And then in that moment he could fight and he could be this awesome champion. And so that's

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the idea with practicing is just etching out new neural pathways. So that's what I was also referring

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to as a leader. A lot of people, lots of human thing to want immediate gratification. Practice

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: can be boring because it doesn't get us right now what we want. We have to have faith. We have to

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: trust and yet be willing to do the work. And a lot of people don't want that, right? They don't want

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to stay true to a vision. They want it now. They want the bells and prizes now. But to your point

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: around, or to your question around being, that's the being right there, right? I'm not telling anybody

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: else to practice. I'm not telling anybody else to make a choice. I'm doing it. I'm living. It's just

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: like they say in dating, right? Be what you want to attract. Well, it's the same thing in leadership,

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: right? Be what you want to inspire in others. What be more is it's the whole Gandhi, right? Be the change

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you want to see. It's very, it's exact same thing. So you start with the being. Then you do because

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: heck we live in a VUCA world, right? I don't know the volatile, just for people who might not know what

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous. If that doesn't describe the world we're living in,

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what does. And so some people have a false notion of very senior leaders that they know

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: exactly what they're doing and always confident and baloney. They're humans too. And they're also

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: trying things out and not always sure, but doing our best, right? And that's the whole doing. It's

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: like, just try it, just experiment. I was watching very recently the latest business mastery course by

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Tony Robbins. Actually, there's a lot of good stuff in there, right? And he does talk about just always

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: adapting, always flexing and just trying and building the plane as we fly it, not always being

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: not, you know, perfection can be the showstopper for many of us because we just wait for the perfection,

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: perfection, perfection, perfection before you know it, everybody else has already moved on.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's the doing. And then the knowing is, well, it's that whole stages of learning thing,

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: right? We, we, we become aware of what might need to shift. We choose if we want to shift it,

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: we practice shifting it. And before you know it through practicing, we have mastery eventually.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the whole knowing we just know when our body, like you were asking me earlier about

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: coming to France, right? It's, it's a different example, but yet similar because of bringing that

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: word knowing in, we just know with a capital K and we can, we can navigate our leadership and our lives

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: like that.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And it's, it's, that's a really important point to be in peace because I think a lot of

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: people sit and say, I mean, especially on leadership programs, they'll say things like,

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, I'm not going to do that. That'll never work. And I'll say, well, have you ever done it?

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it won't work. And so we'll go away and do it and come back and tell me. Then they do it

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and come back and say, it really works all the time. It's fantastic. I wish you told me that,

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking, I'm glad you thought it was your idea because that's the point, isn't it? We,

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: attitudes are built on what we do, not on what we think. So it's, it's really important that we

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: actually bring practice into our lives. And then accountability, I totally with you on that side of it.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, if we're not accountable for our own choices, then who is? Because that was a

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: very strange state of affairs. Now, and I know you were, when we sort of touched on this originally,

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you were sort of saying, oh, this has been a bit of a bit of a challenge, but I know

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: you're sort of halfway through writing a book. And I'm always fascinated with people and their book

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: experiences because, because this is a test of resilience like no other for some people, isn't it?

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing, you know, you're, you're encompassing this. So something that you might be launching

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: back end of this year, maybe even early next year, who knows, but it's, it sounds really fascinating.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just, so it's teed up for us. Yeah. Thank you. Well, I do do a bolder move of the week,

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: which is two or three lines, which people that sign up for it, I've been doing this for over a decade.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And during COVID, I love to write. It's one of my main creative outlets. And during COVID,

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I realized, okay, I need to do, put this book, finally do it as a way of, it was a self-love

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: project really. It's just to show myself that this is who I am. And I originally thought,

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: let me take the bolder moves I had been doing at that point up. It had been a good six years.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And low hanging fruit. I'll just gather them all and put them in a book basically.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I started reading the ones, right. That I had originally started with. Now, what I haven't

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: said to your wonderful audience yet, Russell, is that most of my life I've been a people pleaser.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. And I've just, I'm recovering from that. And I'm definitely not that now, but it's been work.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that already gives you a hint that the fact that the version of me, which showed up through those

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: bolder moves a decade ago is not the version of who I am now. And so when I went back and I started

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: looking at those original bolder moves, they were so transactional. They were so, oh, let me use

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: vocabulary that what have you, you know, basically people pleasing type of stuff trying to be.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And I realized that's not who I am. So I started rewriting most of them and it was COVID.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So probably obvious, but I'll say it anyway, not the best version of me either. So then I noticed,

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: okay, this isn't also not capturing who I am. And then eventually, cause I am both deep,

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: but I'm also quite spicy and fun, right? I like to have fun with it too. So now I have a version

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that does have that. And what it is, is it is the running title, but we're not sure this will stay

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: is the caterpillar's journey, 365 moves to bolder leadership. And the idea is that each page has

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: at the top, there's a quote, then there's the actual bolder move. And then there's the exercise

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to embody it. Why? Cause we all have, I work only with smart cookies, right? Everybody's a smart cookie.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We all know how to read. We all know how to Google something, but what stops most of us is the

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: actual mindset and shifting in it. So there's always an exercise to go with the bolder move,

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but the idea here is not probably would be overwhelming for almost anybody to go through

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and do every day, a different one. So there's a whole different ways to play with it, right?

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That one can look it up in the index and find all themes. Like, let's say I want to develop my

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: mindfulness or I want to develop my ability to have courageous conversations. Or one can randomly

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: pick. I mean, there's different ways to play with it, but as far as I can find, there's no other daily

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: reader for the leaders. And that's essentially what this is. Absolutely fascinating. Well, and you've

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: mentioned, you've actually got the branding in very, very, very craftily there, which I love.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Bolder Moves, of course, is on your website. So I like that you've been able to sneak the...

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: As courageous goes, by the way, because some people, for some reason, think it's the city in

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Colorado, which always surprises me. But yeah, you're right. I actually didn't do it on purpose.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I was more teeing it up about where the idea came from for the book.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. No, I like it. And it works both ways. I'm sure you'll get both domains. Well, look,

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: if people want to see more of your work and engage with you as a coach and find out more about you,

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: how would they do that? Well, I mean, you said it. I'm delighted,

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: delighted to hear from you. My email is Colleen with two L's and two E's at boldermoves.com. And

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: again, it's bolder like being courageous. I also do have the Bolder Move of the Week. If you'd love

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: to sign up, that would be my delight. And you can find that on the first fold of my website.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also on LinkedIn, Colleen Slaughter. And you and I are connected there as well,

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: which is great. So a lot of different ways. And then I'm happy I'm offering a lot of different

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: things coming up, like a self-advocacy challenge, how to self-advocate for yourself and others.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I had different things coming up and be delighted to let everybody know about that as the

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_00]: time is right. Brilliant. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that. Fascinating. And I mean, I mean,

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: was it Gershwin? I mean, if you fired off a couple of musical references for me to the first one,

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Gershwin's an American and Lyon, which isn't quite right, but close. And of course,

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_00]: me, me, me, me, and we, we, we, we is better than five. So I've had a lovely musical chat with you

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: this afternoon. Oh, yeah, cool. Yeah. Well, we got to make this stuff fun, right? Because first of all,

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: why not? Life is too short to not have fun. But also some of these concepts can seem a bit,

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, we already live in a world that is so dreary at times and heavy, right? Yeah. So I find

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: that the more lightness we can bring to some of these topics, the more, not only palpable, but the

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: more delightful they become, right? It becomes fun to actually step into this. But why not?

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. Why not? Great, Colleen. It's been a joy. Thank you so much.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I totally agree. Good luck with everything you're doing.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for spending time with us today. So you take care.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, thanks for listening. Hopefully that was a useful and interesting episode. As I said earlier,

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[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: our site, which is at qedod.com. You can purchase our series of books all about unravelling resilience,

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