Michael O'Brien - Changing perspective to overcome challenges

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[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and today is my guest Michael OBrien and

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: he's going to be talking about something which I think is pretty important and I think

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: we've had a guest talk about this subject before and I've always felt a bit dissatisfied

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: or not dissatisfied, unsatisfied really with the sort of the concept because we've never

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: really got into it in enough depth and I think Michael's going to talk about

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: it almost exclusively and I think that'd be great because I think sometimes mindful

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: breathing or whatever you want to call it or breath work or however it is, meditation

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes whatever you might want to call it, it sometimes is part of something else

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: almost like an add-on or as an afterthought but I think you see it as something more

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: profound than that. So first of all welcome to my guest Michael OBrien. Hi Michael, how are you?

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I am doing great Russell, good to see you so on this day I'm looking forward to our conversation.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can tell by the accent that you are possibly across the pond

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and the time of recording so where in the world are you?

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I am across the pond, I am right outside of New York City and a little state called New Jersey

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: so that's where I reside right now. I'm not from here, I'm from upstate New York,

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: a city called Rochester. I went to school in Virginia then went to Washington DC,

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: that's where I married, met my wife, we had our first daughter there and then the good old

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: corporate career moved us up route 95 in the US to a little town in New Jersey that was founded

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: by the Dutch. I'm guessing that's New Amsterdam is it? Well it's New Amsterdam, New York but

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: like our town is called Teneflie which rumor has it it means 10 swamps in Dutch although

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never found a single swamp in our town but you know it was founded a long time ago.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes and what was the the corporate treadmill about from your perspective?

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well I was in healthcare, pharmaceuticals to be specific on the commercial side and

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I did really did think we were providing value because we were working in fields like

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Alzheimer's disease and in cancer. So important therapies but I was back in the day and I spent

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: 22 years doing that thing from being an individual contributor to leading a team of close to a

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: thousand people. I was on a hamster wheel for the first part of it like just getting after it,

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: type A personality that's sort of commonplace today, believing that our happiness is on the

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: other side of whatever achievement we're going after and so that was a story I was following

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I came into a near-death cycling accident event that changed my perspective

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: on things and then as you mentioned in the opening woke me up to the benefits of mindfulness.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So talk to me about this accidents. I mean in the UK we have a very love-hate relationship

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: with cyclists in the sense that cyclists love themselves and all motorists tend to quite

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: violently object to cyclists so it's quite commonplace I suspect to have cycling accidents

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but without trivializing the subject tell us a bit about what actually happened.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so here too we don't necessarily do a good job sharing them and I think one can safely debate

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that both parties are less than perfect but my accident is a little bit different than maybe your

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: traditional accident on the streets in you know in the UK or here in the states. My driver was

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: a Ford Explorer an SUV he had crossed over the center line of the road fully in my lane and hit

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: me head on going 40 miles an hour so it wasn't simply just like a missed turn or like something

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: was really happening with him with a constant to cross over. The doctors have no idea Russell

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: how I survived they told my wife had I been not in shape or 10 years older I probably would

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: have died before I got to the hospital so I got medevac to Albuquerque New Mexico it happened

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: out in New Mexico first surgery took about 12 hours I needed 34 units of blood product spent

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: four days and changed in the ICU came out of recovery and the doctors really shared a bleak

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: picture of my future more surgeries probably would never ride my bike again and I've been an avid

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: cyclist my whole life I'd probably walk with a lot of trouble and that whole like chasing

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: happiness thing made it even so much worse because I really didn't know who I was going

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to become after losing like what I thought was the right story to follow and then my

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: journey was like a journey of recovery step by step that's now gone on now for close to two decades.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow and of course when you hear a prognosis like that there are people who

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: there are people who sort of seem to acquire a sense of energy and a sense of purpose

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: from that and there are some people who give up aren't they so clearly something happened to

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you so what was going on for you at the moment when you were hearing that news or just after it?

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah just after it I became really angry because the driver had a revoke license

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: should not have been driving that day I was scared I was I was having like all the different

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: pleasant emotions Russell you can imagine when having because I didn't know what kind of dad

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to be or what kind of husband I was going to be or could I still work again like all

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: these all these questions were unanswered and there was so much uncertainty fast forward they

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: flew me back here to New Jersey and a mentor called me and I unloaded on him he asked me like

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: how are you doing? I was like not doing really that great because in public when people would

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: pay me a visit or phone I would try to put up a brave front like we got this but deep inside I

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: was I was really struggling I was having a hard time especially when the hospital

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: got really quiet at night when visiting hours were over and I spent about three and a half

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: of my recovery he said hey everything is neutral until you label it you get to choose your labels

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: in life and that's good at first I didn't really understand it I thought it was some type

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: of Star Wars Yoda thing but I sat with it and sat with it and I realized okay that's probably

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: true and he said right now you're labeling yourself as a victim and no one's going to

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: be able to tell you that you're not a victim.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So I decided to label the day of my accident my last bad day because it was an acknowledgement

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that we're living moments and if I can get to the end of the day and I have people in my

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: life who I love and they love me back then I can't call a full day a bad day even though

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I might have had a few bad moments throughout the day so that shift in perspective really

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: helped and then I found the practice of gratitude I found the practice of mindfulness to help me

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: slow things down a bit so I didn't feel so overwhelmed by how far I had to go to recover

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: so that was the shift for me and to your point you could have easily gone down a

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: different path you know and just wallow in what happened and you sort of just become

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: the identity of the accident and your life is filled with misery and if

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: energy attracts like energy you get more of that energy in your life so I made this shift but

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: it wasn't a light switch it was more of this gradual non-linear approach to my recovery so

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: certainly I had some brilliant moments where I felt really strong I was making a lot of

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: back to the beginning I had to start all over again and you keep mentioning this sort of

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: mindfulness sort of concept and I know a lot of people think it's a bit woo-woo or hippie-dippy

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to quote someone I know and I mean did you know you were doing mindfulness or

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: breath work or such like or did you just start doing stuff well so I thought it was woo-woo and

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: hippie-dippy and way out there because I was going back to when I was going through this this

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is 2001 so this is before the internet as we know it so there's you know no podcasting

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: there's no TEDx talk to talk about the benefits of mindfulness and all that jazz

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: so but I knew conceptionally what it was and I thought well no one I know in corporate life does

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: this it's all those hippies that do this so I'm not going to do this it seemed soft a soft

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: thing to do and I think that's the one of the big complaints is like it seems so soft and it's

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: athlete my whole life is that when the game was going way too fast or there was a big moment in

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the game our coach would call a timeout and in that time out we would take a pause catch our

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: breath and then draw up the play to go back on the pitch or the field or the court so I

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew the breath was important to slow everything down and so that intuitively spoke to me because

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: everything seemed so fast because there was so much coming at me when it came to my recovery

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_00]: so I knew if I could just connect with my breath slow things down maybe I could

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: manage this recovery better because I so desperately wanted to leave the hospital

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: just to get back home to familiar sights and sounds and smells because the hospital

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: is a place where it's really hard to actually heal because you're getting poked out all the

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: time and it's it can be loud and you don't get much sleep so I just really wanted to get

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that's full of little people yeah it's yes filled with people like me like who was all

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and stuff and you want I just wanted to get back to really like my own bed and the smells

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: of our kitchen and stuff like that and so I got out of bed the next morning after I had this big

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: aha got myself in my wheelchair wheeled myself to what was a relatively quiet place in the

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: hospital and I did a box breathing pattern so as opposed to doing like a wooish kind of

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: meditation so the box breathing pattern was a simple breathe in for kind of four holds for

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: four breathe out for four holds for four and I did that for a few minutes and I was like okay

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I got my head on straight it was a little bit of a timeout right and again going back to that

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: sports analogy and then I did it again the next day and I continued doing it and then I

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: furthered my study of mindfulness and meditation as as to what it really is so

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: judging it from afar as hippie dippy or woo woo I was like I think there's something to

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: this whole breath thing and so I decided to do a bit more study eventually became a teacher

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but until I became a teacher I brought the practice back into my corporate life

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: because in corporate life that's really fast that's going a thousand miles an hour and I

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: thought if this worked for my recovery because it was helping me approach my

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_00]: recovery from my accident better but the conversation I was having with myself was

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: like if this is helping me with this it might be helpful with work because so much is coming at

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: us that from a work perspective and sure enough it was awesome in terms of like how it assisted

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: me I do credit it for helping me get to the executive suite and to play the game a little

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: bit differently than a lot of my colleagues so practically what were you doing different

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: one I was trying to give things a little bit more space to breathe and not be so reactive

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I think in life today especially in corporate life today things are flying at us and we feel

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: like we have to react to each email the fastest or make a decision quickly so what

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: the practice allowed me to do is to slow things down a bit create some space right between

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you know stimulus and responses Victor Frankel has written like there's a space and even that

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: great advice my mentor gave me everything is neutral until you label it so

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to create a little bit more neutrality to say okay how can we be thoughtful about this

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: decision and we were still driving forward and making things happen and all those other little

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: phrases that we use in corporate life but I was doing it with again a little bit more

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: mindfulness a little bit more thoughtfulness and that was helping me make better decisions

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it also helped me stay focused because I think one of the big things that takes away from our

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: productivity in corporate life or just in life in general is our lack of focus because there's

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: so many little shiny objects pulling at our attention and I think the last piece was it

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: helped me meet stressful moments with a little bit more calm a word called equanimity so just

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: the ability to show up in those moments in a way that I really desired so that's in a large

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: part what was happening for me in my corporate life and I think it really did help me advance

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and show up differently to all the pressures that corporate life can present to us today

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and what you've done is you've sort of taken the initial idea turned to business it looks

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: by all intents and purposes that you've created not just a business but a bit of a movement

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: around the subject yeah I'm a huge believer that what we've gone through with the pandemic

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: what we're living through now with political uncertainty or even unrest or just

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: what's happening to the planet how how we're perhaps not seeing or really listening to each

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_00]: other the mindfulness was the invitation through the pandemic to say hey listen

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: when you slow it down just a bit the planet actually responds we can be more thoughtful

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and this is what we can do individually is really like pause long enough to say hey

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I see you Russell I hear you I appreciate you I think ultimately we need to be together

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: we're creatures that are part of like community and so if we're rushing too quickly if we're all

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: on our individual hamster wheels if you will we don't really see and appreciate and connect

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: with each other in the way that we can so this again this is not to stop the flywheel

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: from turning and there's capitalism and all that jazz but it's really how we approach our lives

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and how we approach our work and how we approach each other I do think the pandemic

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and the recent uncertainty or current uncertainty is really a calling to say hey you can connect

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: with your breath you can practice gratitude and mindfulness as a way to become more resilient

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and find a way to create more belonging that's going to help us downstream as we go into

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: new chapters of uncertainty and stress. So I get what you mean by mindfulness because

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was it was it Eckhart Tolle that wrote the poem of not now all those years ago

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: brought up some of the idea together so we all get that idea that the idea being in the

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: moment and actually taking time to notice what's going around you and I think that's

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: very powerful thing but you talked there about this this idea of connecting with your breath

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: so what do you really mean by that and how do we do it? Yeah so we take about 22,000 breaths

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: per day well you know it's the thing it's one of the things that we do most often during the

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: day our heart probably thumps about 110 115 000 times a day so that actually is more

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: frequent than even breathing but rarely do we notice our breath because it's an automatic

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: body function we don't have to tell our body to breathe so connecting with our breath and

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: really feeling our breath can do a lot to help regulate what's happening in our bodies

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and by connecting with the breath we actually do make a greater connection

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: to the body because our body will whisper to us a lot before it really starts to scream at us

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and so from our overall health whether it's physical or mental it can really do wonders as

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: far as truly connecting with your breath like what Eckhart Tolle said be here now

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: yes that's part of mindfulness and we often get distracted our mind likes to wander

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: right so one of the definitions though of mindfulness that I really like is it's not

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: really about paying attention on purpose or remembering to pay attention on purpose so

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: there are times for me even as a meditation teacher where I'm distracted and I've wandered

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: off but when things are really things that truly matter it's good to have that focus

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and so mindfulness and living mindfully can help us be thoughtful in those moments and the breath

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: is that body's regulator so when we get stressed we can use our breath to calm down and sometimes

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: we need a little bit more energy and we can use our breath to increase the energy within us so

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: having this relationship with the breath through mindfulness can do wonders just for our energy

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: our mental and our physical health okay and you talked earlier about box breathing

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: which and there are many different patterns of breathing out there and I work a lot with

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: diaphragmatic breathing which I yes to be quite transformational

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: but and there are lots of different things a levadine hole two outs and it's all

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: yes there's a whole bunch of different variations there are aren't there and in a sense not

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: in a sense I'm sort of wondering whether you think actually that none of that matters what

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: matters is that you're you're actually paying attention when you're doing any sort of counting

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I really do believe like really none of it matters you know like so whether it's four two

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: or seven eight four four four fours a box you know there isn't really rigorous research

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: on say box breathing and the benefits of box breathing versus an inhale of four and exhale

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: of two or vice versa so there isn't that type of scientific proof of having clinically

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: meaningful results or just really practical results but the overall benefit regardless of

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: pattern you choose it's a we're interrupting the pattern of life to slow things down

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to check ourselves to call a time out of it as I mentioned earlier and just remember to come back

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to the breath so in just doing that slowing that down is a it's a signal to the body to

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: say hey we're safe you know because we're hardwired as you know through your work to

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: stay alive and so we're going to we're going to pay attention to threats it elevates our heart rate

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: changes our blood pressure sends a hormonal response through the body if we feel like

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: we're in danger so when we connect with the breath we can let the body know like okay we're

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: safe we're just going through a really big meeting or we're about to make a presentation

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but we're still good here and so however one does it I'm agnostic to the pattern

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but I'm a true believer that finding a way to reconnect with your breath and through like

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the big things I like to talk about is the value of micro practices

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so a minute two minutes three minutes and the research is now coming forward to suggest that

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: those shorter practices even five minutes has really great meaningful benefits because they're

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: easy for folks to do consistently where I studied as a teacher the practice was 45

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: minutes a day mindfulness-based stress reduction and a lot of people that come into mbsr as it's

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00]: known come into it because they have a medical condition and they use it as a treatment modality

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and so they're highly motivated to do 45 minutes a day but the average person 45 minutes a day

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: is a long bridge to travel over and some people may be good for one day and then

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: they might not do it again for another six days for me I would rather have you come to

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: me and say you know what I don't have 10 minutes Michael in the morning to do this

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: whole meditation thing and I'm like I bet you don't life is busy but I bet you have five

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: times throughout the day where you have two minutes yeah and my feeling is like let's take

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: two minutes to pause breathe connect with your breath and then take a moment of reflection

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: how do you want to show up next sort of writing that play and how you want to

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: come back onto the pitch so my my feeling is I would much rather have a person do a

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: consistently throughout the days over the long haul that's how we get to a point where we're

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: living more mindfully and being more thoughtful in terms of how we're showing up for ourselves

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and each other yeah that's brilliant um so people want to find out more about you the

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: work you do and I know you have an app so maybe you should tell us a little bit about

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: that so so first of all give us the contact details and tell us about the app and how

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it works sure well people can find me at michaelobryan shift.com and the name of the app

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that people can get through the app store or google play is called pause

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: breathe reflect and what's really cool is that people can just pay what they can for the first

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: year so using us dollars they can pay as little as a dollar for the first year to learn this

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: thing called meditation and when they get it they also get me so if people are listening

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: or like I could never listen to this guy meditate well that's probably not for you

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but for everyone else yeah you you get coaching along with it to help you build a practice

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and learn about this whole thing called mindfulness and so yeah they can find that

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: wherever they happen to get their apps and it's filled with a lot of shorter practices

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and what we also do Russell is I lead live practices throughout the week over zoom

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and what's really cool is that we get people from all over the world that come

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: into this one zoom and we do a short practice together and it's really it's for us it's an

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: opportunity to build community until and to let everyone know like we're all going through

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and wherever we may happen to be living in this world and our lived experiences and how old we

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: are and all that jazz like we have this common space where we practice together

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and in a world that feels disconnected it does bring a sense of connection that is

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: really beautiful to see. That's absolutely fantastic and I've downloaded the app so it's

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: practical because basically what you're doing is you're giving something someone to focus on

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: as well as doing activity at the same sort of time so that's actually great.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah we wanted to make it simple yeah we wanted to make a practical relatable simple

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: so there's not a lot of woo-woo in it and there's not a lot of you know it's secular

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: there's not a lot of the buddhist underpinnings in it I really just want more people who may

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: be sitting on the sidelines thinking like I don't know if I really want to do this

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to help them understand that they can do it and we teach it in a very I think yeah

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00]: relatable way to say hey you got this breath in your body let's figure out how to have

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: a better connection with it and that might help you navigate all of life's uncertainties

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: with a little bit more grace. And it makes sense doesn't it I mean you know physiologically

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that breathing correctly allows your heart rate to reduce and you know that's going to be good

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: for all sorts of different reasons but we also know how many conditions are actually caused by

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: poor respiratory breathing systems and learned habits and sleep alpeneers and all sorts of

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: things so we know that by focusing we know that there's a negative effect to

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: irregular or poor breathing so there must be a positive effect to good breathing and you're

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: right there isn't it doesn't seem to be much evidence about which breathing system is right

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but everybody agrees and everybody knows physiologically that being more aware and

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_01]: more practice in the way that we breathe is simply very good for you. Absolutely so we have

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: developed some pretty poor habits when it comes to breathing but many of us are mouth

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: breathers we should be or a better way of breathing is breathing through our nose and

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: out through our nose. You mentioned sleep apnea there's something called email apnea as well

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Russell one study suggests that 85 percent of us hold our breath as we're doing email

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and so you know and we're holding our breath not on purpose you know and that's not the

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: healthiest thing for us as well so through the app we learn how to breathe better and use this

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: wonderful tool that we have in our body that we don't spend a lot of time thinking about

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: but my argument is we should probably spend a little bit more time than we currently are

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking about and reconnecting with our breath especially during the times that we live.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Well I mean there is no better message to finish on than that and did you tell us how to get in

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: touch? You told us how to get the app but if we want to find out more about did you talk about

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the website domain address and everything like that? Yeah it's michaelobryanshift.com

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and then there you can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram those are the two main points

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: of contact. I do a lot of work in corporate life trying to help corporations breathe a little

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: better so if people love LinkedIn you can find me there. Good Michael it's been a real joy today

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and I've really got the significance now I think you've talked about it in a really practical

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: way which works for someone like me who's a bearer of very little brain so thank you so

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: much for spending time with us today and it's been a joy to talk and download the app have

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: a look at the websites and join the movement pause breathe reflect.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You've been a joy to talk today thanks so much for your time thanks for us all you take care.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi thanks for listening hopefully that was a useful and interesting episode as I said earlier

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