Pratiqk Jaani on Conditioning, the Observer Self, and Shifting from Scarcity to Wholeness through Drashti

[00:00:03] Hi, I'm Dr. Russell Thackeray and welcome to Resilience Unravelled, a podcast with new ideas, new thoughts, and new thinking about resilience. Guests with remarkable stories, products and services that can really power up your own mindset and resilience. You can also go to our site for more information, to ask questions, or to access some of our resources at resilienceunravelled.com. Let's get started.

[00:00:32] Hello and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled. And delighted to meet my guest Ephraim Ebstein today, who I believe is in our fair and separate aisle down south. Is that right, Pratiq? That's correct. Where are you in the world? I'm in London. Very good. In the smoke. And tell us a bit about you. So I have been an accountant for the last 20 years. An accountant? An accountant and business advisor, yes.

[00:01:02] But alongside my work, I had some questions about the life and the happiness and sadness and the challenges and what we are really after. Because once you hit first milestone, you always had another target. So going through that journey of not completing enough. And same thing happened with the love or relationship-wise. You want to feel complete, but there is some sort of unfulfillment.

[00:01:28] And finally, I had that realization after years of searching and talking to other people. So here I am with the message. What transformed everything? That I feel complete. And when you operate from that wholeness, the life experiences changes. So that's the message. That's what I'm really doing.

[00:01:49] And with the book, I feel I have a calling that going forward, my remaining life is devoted to get this message to people who are in the same struggle journey as I have been and to help them to live life differently. And what is this message? Because you seem to be talking a little bit about like the steps to enlightenment or something like that. Finding your inner wisdom and a purpose, that sort of thing. Yeah, but I think I would like to keep it more practical because there are a lot of books and a lot of information about the spirituality or enlightenment.

[00:02:19] What I have learned is real life. A guy who was doing nine to five, a person who did his own business and he has his own struggles. So not going away from that, but staying there and still feeling internally very different. And what I learned is that what we should have in our life, what is considered to be a good life or what is considered to be a bad life. It's all conditioned in our childhood. And it's not just our childhood.

[00:02:47] Like wherever we received our conditioning from, which is our surrounding parents, family, friends, teachers, friends. They also were conditioned. So it's like a loop coming from centuries since we were evolved as human. And we learned to operate from scarcity mindset. So we always want to accumulate. And there is no limit on how much is enough because there is always more you can get, which means no matter how much you're getting, you're still feeling there is something more to get.

[00:03:15] So there is always some sort of lack you're operating from. But when I had the realization, when I learned that everything was conditioning and when I took all the conditioning off and what remained was absolutely complete and whole. And when I saw the life from that wholeness, whatever I did was giving me a lot more joy than because there was nothing else for me to receive. There was nothing else for me to get because I already had whatever I ever wanted.

[00:03:42] So that shift from scarcity to abundance changed the way everything was. So the events and people are still the same, but the way I see completely changed. So you're describing a mindset change. It's a mindset and it's more like a realization. It's from experiential level because I also am qualified hypnotherapist.

[00:04:04] So I learned how we were growing up and how we learned beliefs and how our neurological pattern gets developed about things and how we recognize things and events and how we experience them. It's all been taught. So if we remove everything that we learned from our childhood, then we can change it. And most of the information I came across, like motivational things or psychological things, it mainly focused on changing that mindset.

[00:04:33] So again, I felt it was still a kind of conditioning because you're removing the beliefs not serving, but we are installing the beliefs that serves. But that is still a belief. But when you go one layer deeper on which all these beliefs and conditioning lies, everything changes. What is this layer that's lower than beliefs? That layer is like when you breathe and people meditate and things, right? I have meditated. I've done lots of different techniques.

[00:05:03] So when you're meditating, you just focus on the breath. But what I did is I didn't focus on the breath. I did for a few days, but then I felt I was just doing the same thing and nothing was changing. So my focus went into the pause element of the, of the, between the inhale and exhale. There are two pauses. And I felt that. And then when I was breathing, I bypassed the watching the breath and I was looking at that element, which is that part in us.

[00:05:32] And when I then did the self-hypnosis or when I was reviewing the events, that part was not affected. So when I go to my happy moment in my life, I feel happy, but that part is constant, neutral. When I was sad and going through a lot of pain, that part was always there. He couldn't feel anything. So when I learned to see the life from that point, I realized that everything I was experiencing, I was learned to experience.

[00:06:02] I learned to experience it. It wasn't a true experience. It was ground shaking at the moment, but slowly I got used to it. And then I realized that part is the observer who we are, who's experiencing the life. So that gave me the sense of fulfillment. That gave me the sense of completeness. So now when I'm doing a task, I'm getting joy by doing that instead of once I do that, what I'm going to get in return, because there is nothing I expect in return.

[00:06:32] For example, we all work nine to five and we work, people work for salary because they have expenditure and you have a hobby of playing piano. So when you're playing piano, you don't have any expected outcome from playing. You're getting joy by just playing it, whether you're in tune or out of the tune, doesn't matter. So when everything you do in your life becomes like playing that piano, everything changes because you're operating from.

[00:07:01] And the thing is, I've asked so many people, and this is my own experience. Every time I've got something which was really valuable, it's something I was not expecting. And it just happened automatic. So when we are chasing something, we're actually trying to control the outcome. And that control is what is bringing more not control. So it brings more lack. That's what the law of attraction teaches, right? That what you feel inside is what you manifest.

[00:07:29] And because we are always chasing something externally, we are actually telling that we are not complete. And that's why what we really receive is more lack. Okay. You've given me a lot to think about there. So I'm just starting to think about the last bit you said, which surely we're just a manifestation of what everybody else thinks about us, of our place in the external world. Because we exist as a social animal within a context or within a framework. Yes, yes, yes.

[00:07:59] And I guess I know lots of people come in here and talk about, and we're all about resilience, and come and talk about having a job they don't like, and playing the piano, which they do, and then in flow and all that sort of stuff. But I don't see, because I think drastic, doesn't it mean something like perception or something? It doesn't mean something like perception? It does. It does. So I get that idea of perception, but, and it's the perception of yourself as opposed to, or your place in wherever you are. No, yeah. It's difficult to understand what it's about.

[00:08:25] Basically, when you identify yourself as that part, as the witness or the person who experienced everything, that part in you, everything what you used to feel, pain, suffer, struggling, or chasing, or waiting to receive something, was all learned. It's like you were thrilled to see a magic when you didn't know how that magic has been done. But once you know the trick, the fun part of the magic goes away.

[00:08:52] So when you were in hurt, or when you were in pain, you were taught growing up that this is the event when we see the pain. I'll give an example. One-year-old boy, if he sees someone really dearly passes away, that boy is going to have no impact on him. And it's likewise when his father wins a million-dollar lottery and comes in parties.

[00:09:17] For that one-year-old boy, nothing really matters because he's not being taught what these events mean. As he grows up, he learns, okay, this is a death, and we get emotionally attached, and it's something we cry. And he learns, it's not a direct education to the child. It's absorbed conditioning through our surroundings. So we learned. And I think the book really talks about in detail how this has all started and why. There is nothing wrong.

[00:09:45] It's all part of the process of knowing who we truly are. So I won't take much time going into too much detail. But the reality is that when that person learns to, when the boy is conditioned and he grows up and he feels all the pains and struggles, and then he realized at the older age that actually everything I was experiencing was something I learned. So once you learn that magic while you were feeling that, then at the age of 60 or 70,

[00:10:14] when you're operating your life from that state, if somebody passes away or somebody wins the lottery, it would again make no sense. But there is a big difference between not impacting as a child and not impacting as a 60-year-old, because you've gone through the journey. And I think that journey is the true purpose. And once you know that, your joy will come from acting out from the inspired actions. So how is this different from something like the theory of meta-analysis,

[00:10:43] or sorry, meta-awareness, the witness-observer-self type thing? Which is the understanding you separate to thoughts and feelings and emotions. Is it actually the same, just using a different sort of language? Ultimately, it's the same. But what I'm putting is my own experience, because generally when we read the books or hear someone who is specialist in that area, they have devoted their life. And I feel those things and the activities or exercises they give us,

[00:11:12] it's really hard for us to consistently do it. Because I've been to inner engineering program, I've been initiated for Kriya Yoga, and I did it for a few months and then it went away. Because at one point it became effort, and I didn't feel comfortable doing something which I'm no longer resonating. So, but I guess they were all steps for me to be where I am today and what I'm feeling. But anything that has exercise, so we're training of a conscious mind,

[00:11:41] but our action comes from subconscious. We feel, okay, tomorrow morning I'm going to wake up three o'clock and do the meditation. And then three o'clock you are like, oh no, I don't want to wake up, I'll wake up at six. And then again, you can't wake up at six. That's because the decisions you make comes from conscious mind, but the actions you take comes from subconscious mind. Because the whole conditioning takes place in our subconscious mind. So when you learn to see the life from the state of the observer or that part, which I call drusty, you see everything.

[00:12:10] So then there is nothing you have to do because there is nothing you want to get in return, which means you do what you inspire to do. So there is no... But surely that you're doing what you do, what you're inspired to do to get that sense of inspiration. Exactly, exactly. So when I... So you are getting an outcome. Yeah, you're not expecting, you're not attached to that outcome. That's the foundation. Like when I started my first business, like accounting practice,

[00:12:39] I had no guaranteed monthly income. And I had a lot of leads and I talked to clients. Now, when I give my proposal and I had to pay bills and I was the only breadwinner at that time. So when I'm focusing like, okay, this is how much I'm going to charge. And if this client comes, this is how much I'm going to get. Those people did not become my client. However, when I was talking to the clients and I liked and I was quite intrigued with the type of work they were doing,

[00:13:07] because I was working with a lot of startups and innovative businesses. I was so much involved in their business and I gave so much value to it before even I gave my proposal. So when I gave them proposal, it was always yes, because I was not really focusing on the outcome. When I was working with them, it was me playing piano without any expected outcome. So why did you charge? Because that's the process. But this is something I realized.

[00:13:33] This is something I realized after I had these realizations. When you realize something, you go back and you analyze the events. Yes. And you feel, okay, now this is why something worked and this is why something didn't work. Okay. So that makes sense, I think. How does it, why does it matter in terms of people's resilience then? Yeah. Because I think what we are resisting or whatever gives us stress or any negative emotions,

[00:14:03] they are, we are experiencing them as a result of our conditioning from the childhood, because we are expected to be someone. We're expected to perform like someone to maintain the status in a society. Otherwise you'll be criticized. And this is why when we feel, and that's what creates a self-doubt. That's what creates a low self-esteem. And I've been through all of that. I've been through stress. Like I remember like Sunday, 12 o'clock, I am down because tomorrow is Monday for a good six, seven years.

[00:14:33] And then I realized that there was nothing I could do until the Monday come. So why was I spoiling that? And now I feel every day is Monday and every day is Sunday because the perception, the way I was seeing things has changed. Obviously it was a journey. It was an overnight thing. But because I think there was a strong desire to find the answers and somehow universe led me to that. And the book is a calling because I was doing...

[00:15:01] Before we go into the book, so tell me how you did that. Because you said it was this and it was that and then it was all great. But what was the practice? What was the actual process you did to turn things into Sundays and Mondays? Okay. So before I was always felt that I had to prove myself because, you know, that comes from my childhood conditioning that in order to be recognized or in order to be valued, you have to give, you have to deliver, you've got to serve. And that's something I had learned. So I did that with my friends.

[00:15:31] I did that with my families, my work colleagues. I always gave a lot more than what I was receiving. And I took it. That's how it is. And I have to be content within me. So I shouldn't expect more. So you have desire, but you learn to suppress those desires because otherwise you will be considered as not nice person. So I continued doing that. In 2017, I was diagnosed with tuberculosis and I was in bed for three months.

[00:15:58] And at that point, I had this thought, like, if I passed away with this illness, what would not take place in the world? What will stop without me? And the answer was nothing. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, so in order for me to be out of the trap, do I really need to die or I just need to extend for myself and feel that confidence in myself?

[00:16:21] And when I did that, as soon as I recovered, the first thing I did was my handed in my notice at my work and started my own business. And I think the fear, I think that that was a point where the fear of death disappeared. And once I conquered that fear, I felt everything else is possible to deal with. You just have to do what your inner self is saying. And I started doing things. Obviously, we make mistakes.

[00:16:45] Like I mentioned earlier, focusing on the money I'm going to get when I was doing the proposal because I was desperate to receive the cash compared to the others. So it was a process. But I think when I was qualified as a hypnotherapist and rapid transformational therapist, that kind of gave a language to what I was experiencing.

[00:17:06] So that gave me a way I can communicate or I can communicate with myself because I have been very logical in everything since I was growing up. So I couldn't believe in mysticism. I couldn't believe in miracles because there has to be some logic. So somehow I learned through my own way, which is logic. And logic actually taught me that the mysticism can exist because it's individual experience. When I had this final realization, then I applied it to different events.

[00:17:35] So I go to my past when I was really hurt and I applied. If I was witnessing that event as what I feel now, how would I really feel? And there was nothing. I was fine because it was part of the experience. I don't have to label whether this is a good experience or a bad experience. It was just experience. What we were taught is good and bad. Yeah. So what you've done is you've basically had a... Yeah. So you've reframed your thoughts. Exactly.

[00:18:02] Because you've applied a new set of context or parameters to that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Did you see, therefore, when you had Shibir Hillis, that human life is meaningless and actually the fact that people can pass away and never have an impact in the world is a thing that's something that's freeing and enabling? Or is it inspirational and something that you might want to change because you might want to make an impact? I think... Because that begets the problem, doesn't it? If you want to make an impact, you're doing things for an outcome.

[00:18:30] So that goes against your theory, doesn't it? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. But having said that, if I fast forward and come to the book, I mean, between I got qualified as hypnotherapist and when I decided to write a book, I hypnotized multiple people on various issues they were having. And what I learned is if every single human was out of conditioning, we were all identical.

[00:18:56] So it's like we all buy a new iPhone and it's the same in comes out in the box. But when we start using it, it becomes our extended version. So then after six months, they're all different. So if we remove that, then we're all having the same experiences. And the realizations I had, I applied that with my clients and they could feel the exact same thing. So I had this calling from within. This message needs to get out.

[00:19:23] So it's not about selling this many number of books or this many people coming to the three-day experience. It's about people who are searching. There is something there to help. That is it. And because it is so profound, it is a lot deeper than me saving money on their businesses. My life is shifting that this is something I'm going to do all the time for the rest of my life. So if you want to find out more about this, where should we look?

[00:19:52] Tell us about the book when it's coming out, how that works. So the book goes out on the 25th of April, this Saturday. It's available on Amazon. Some information about the book is on my website, pratikjani.com. And the three-day experience is on drustymethod.com, where I'm doing the first event end of September. There will be more details coming shortly after the book launch. Very good. And are you on social media and all those sorts of things that people want to find out more? Yes, I'm on Instagram.

[00:20:22] I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. Absolutely fascinating. I want to have a little read. So I shall, and then perhaps we can speak again when I understand some more. Brilliant. Thank you. That's a really fascinating idea. And I think sometimes it doesn't matter what you're saying. It's the language or the method by which you're saying it because it appeals. The same language can apply. The same solution can apply differently to different people because they hear it in different ways, don't they? Absolutely. Your iPhone analogy. Yeah. Absolutely. Great.

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