[00:00:03] Hi, I'm Dr. Russell Thackeray and welcome to Resilience Unravelled, a podcast with new ideas, new thoughts and new thinking about resilience. Guests with remarkable stories, products and services that can really power up your own mindset and resilience. You can also go to our site for more information, to ask questions or to access some of our resources at resilienceunravelled.com. Let's get started.

[00:00:32] Hi and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled on a wonderful sunny day, according to my guest, Dr. Shirley Davis. Not so sunny here, not so wonderful here, but it's good to hear things are warm and sunny somewhere in the world, Dr. Shirley. How are you today? I am phenomenal. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure, pleasure to talk about it. And yes, it is going to be 88 degrees Fahrenheit here in the Florida area.

[00:00:58] So it's going to say you must be somewhere warm. So whereabouts in Florida are you? Which part? I'm in Tampa Bay right by the ocean. This is my happy place. And I intentionally built this area where I'm at and just to create that space and place where I love, love, love the water. I have that peace of mind. And it's my joyful place to go from a long, stressful day. Sounds like it. What a great idea. I don't think people think enough about that today.

[00:01:26] They don't think enough about how they how the surroundings really affects people's mood, sense of well-being. And often some people can't have no have no control over it. But when you can, it's really important to find a good place to be, isn't it? It is. And I think for me, you're right. It's the environment of where you live, where you work at and certainly who is around you.

[00:01:49] So as I think about even in my life, I've had to be really intentional about ensuring that I have that peace, that happiness and that place where I can really decompress and reinvent myself. And I think that's so important. Yeah, absolutely. OK, so we now know you're in Florida. But now we know what you think about being intentional. But now we actually do something really formal.

[00:02:12] And I'm going to say, tell us a bit about yourself. Yeah, I am actually a 30 year HR professional. I've worked in every area of human resources and I love it. I ran recruiting. I led recruiting for 10 years. I have great experiences and interviewing people. So it's amazing to be interviewed on the other side of it, but also working with employee relations, leadership, development, culture transformation.

[00:02:37] I've worked in the diversity, equity and inclusion space. And I love, love, love this work that I do as a life coach and helping people get a larger vision for themselves. So that's one part of me. Now I'm running my own global consulting business and helping leaders and organizations build the kind of workplaces where all talent can come and do their best, give their best thinking, be fully engaged, retain that great talent. And then help to be really innovative, creative, solve complex problems.

[00:03:07] And then you want them to stay. So that's a great part of what I do. And then in my personal life, as you've heard, I'm a beach bum. I'm a movie buff. I'm an HGTV junkie. I am a mom and a daughter. I've got my parents living with me now. So I'm full in the middle of being a sandwich generation and enjoying it. That's interesting. So when you say you're a movie addict, what sort of what's your movie of choice? Look, I'm an emotional one at heart. So I love family movies. I love stories.

[00:03:36] I do like drama and crime stories. I love, love anything, crime and drama. And I love my Hallmark movies. I watch those pretty religiously. But I'm overall movies, except I don't do horror movies. Good to know. And it's really important to for people. Some people see watching movies as a sort of something to be ashamed of. But actually, they can be very uplifting and spiritually fulfilling and learn a lot.

[00:04:02] And actually, why not sit in front of the television with a few friends and family and just chill out? Especially a Hallmark movie, because you don't have to work out what the plot's going to be, because everybody knows the plot. That's true. That's true. And then I watch a lot of the Netflix and the Hulus and the Peacock, but it has to be a long series. And I've been loving New Amsterdam, which is an amazing health professional, kind of about a hospital. I love that. It's based on a book.

[00:04:28] And then I've been enjoying just watching 9-1-1 with Angela Bassett, who's one of my favorite actresses. So I know you and I could talk about movies and television programs for half an hour, but that's not a good use of your time. The other thing you didn't mention in your introduction about yourself, which is fascinating, we will come back to. But you've also got a foundation in your name. Could you tell me a bit about that? Because I'm interested in that personally. Yeah, the Dr. Shirley Davis Foundation.

[00:04:52] That's a part of me too, because I grew up, my parents really taught me how to serve and how to give to others that are less fortunate. And my foundation is all about an experience of my own life. Growing up, I got married, I got divorced, I was a single mom. So part of my foundation is to help other moms be able to have the resources that they need to be successful. Through education, I provide coaching.

[00:05:15] And we also do a lot of work with helping people to get scholarships, internships, helping them to start businesses and be an entrepreneur like I was as well. I'm big on education, and that's a big part of the work that we do. But even during the hurricanes that we recently had with Hurricane Milton and Hurricane Helene, they did significant damage here in Florida, right down the street from me and myself. I lost my entire first floor.

[00:05:41] But we immediately went to work and started providing me care kits to people who had lost everything. We provided clothing through the Dr. Shirley Davis closet. And then we just partnered with other community organizations to ensure people had housing. So I'm really thrilled to have given more than $10,000 to help people be rehomed. So that's important to me. Yeah. And I think it's something a lot of people talk about, don't they, when they start in their own businesses, that sense of being able to A, do what you want, B, do something bigger than yourself.

[00:06:10] And I guess the foundation allows you to free yourself up to really to think about the things that you're particularly interested in. So you can be doing – I often find people – a lot of people say are really unhappy at work. And you say, why don't you do something in your spare time? Because actually that gives sense to what you're doing at work then. And I think you're showing that in a way, aren't you? I am. And you're right. A lot of the work I do in human resources is helping companies to build the kind of workplace where people feel fulfilled.

[00:06:37] They feel like there's a level of significance that they can be attached to the company. They love to work for companies who also are very philanthropic as well. But for me, I find it fulfilling too to give back. I'm in my years now. I know I don't look it, but I'm 58 years old and feeling 38 but looking 28. But I am in my give back season. I'm in my legacy building season.

[00:07:00] And I want to be able to give back and reach back to others and help them along the way in their careers, in their finances. We teach financial literacy. But we're helping them to have the opportunities and the resources that I didn't always have. And grateful that when I did find those, that I'm able to now help other people find them as well. Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant. What's interesting though, you used a phrase earlier, which is a very common phrase over here, which is the sandwich generation. Yeah.

[00:07:27] And it's often a point, isn't it, where you can feel yourself being bashed from pillar to pose because you often involve the parents, your own family, families of family, you're working. And it can be a really enlightening place to be, but it can also be exhausting, can't it? Can you talk a bit more about that? Both and, yes. I am. I'm thrilled. I moved my parents here a year ago from Washington, D.C. to Florida. It was very difficult for them because more so for my dad.

[00:07:56] I had mom at hello. But my dad, who had lived, they lived in the same home for almost 40 years. He was used to being in charge according to his rules under his roof. And dad is a very masculine man with pride. And it was a little bit of a struggle and a challenge to get him to come, to uproot himself, to now have to live with his daughter. He felt a sense of loss and his own sense of self-worth and masculinity.

[00:08:22] But as a daughter, and I'm very close to my daddy's girl, so I was able to really, with kid gloves, help him to understand that this was going to be the best part of his life in his next chapter. That this was about happiness and giving him back more years. Because in Florida, you get to be out year-round. You don't have to worry about snow and ice and extreme cold temperatures. I gave him some daddy-do's so he feels a very valuable contribution that he's making. And we've learned how to live together.

[00:08:50] And we've learned how to cohabitate. And it's working. We create boundaries. We're very respectful of each other's independence. And now he feels like it was the best decision that he made. So I'm grateful that I was able to do that. But it's rewarding to have family time, quality time. My parents are in their 80s. And I'm grateful that we get a chance now to learn each other in our older years. Because I left at 17 and I hadn't been back home.

[00:09:15] And so it's the first time for them to see me as an independent, resourceful, young lady, businesswoman. But at the same time, independent and resourceful. So what's the secret then between people like you who've got things done, made things happen, created something, established their place in the world. And the other people who sit there talking about it, but never quite getting around to it. What's the sort of fundamental difference, would you say? Yeah, a couple of things.

[00:09:42] I, for me, have learned to really stay true to who I am, what I believe my calling is in life, what my gifts and my talents and my strengths are, what I bring to the world. And to really hone on those, my strengths. I play to my strengths, not trying to build areas where I know I'm not gifted and talented in. So I stay in my lane. I think that's important.

[00:10:05] What's also important for me is that you have relationships and a network of people around you who are smarter than you, more successful, but they're not intimidated and threatened by your big dreams and your big goals. And they're willing to help you get to where you need to get to. So I always say relationships are the new currency because I've saved money, time, I've made money, and I've been referred to. I've gotten references and recommendations from people who have helped me to make money but save money. I think that's so important.

[00:10:35] And I think the other piece of it is just being able to be resilient and to bounce back. And I've learned how to reinvent myself and take some personal risk on myself. And I've invested in my own development to really become and optimize the best version of who I can be. So I'm happy in my skin. I'm happy being my true and authentic self. And that's what I like to help other people do as well. Not try to be like everybody else, but learn who you are, what you're called to do, what your compelling why is.

[00:11:04] And be passionate in life about that. And I hope that's what you hear in my voice. And I think that's what's in my face. I'm happy. I'm fulfilled. So I've got two immediate questions. One, which is about how do you create that great relationship you talk about. But before we get there, what is a compelling why? Because a lot of people hear this. And it's a sort of a phrase that's bandied around. So can you unpack it a bit and say what it really actually means? Yeah, for me, understanding my compelling why is what gets me up in the morning?

[00:11:34] Every day. That makes me excited. That makes me look forward to the day. Not that I'm being defined by someone else or confined sometimes by people's limitations. But I wake up every day saying, you know what? This is what I like to do. This is what I'm gifted to do. This is what I would do if I didn't get paid. This is what I would do if I won the lottery and didn't need any money. I would still do this. This is what I feel like my creator put on the inside of me.

[00:12:02] I also learned that compelling why by asking the important people in my life who see things in me and saw them long before I did. The things that I'm really passionate about. And over time, I found that your why, your purpose in life leaves breadcrumbs. You keep going back to it. It's those things that kind of torment you at night when you say, one day I want to do this. One day, if I have enough money, I'm going to do this. And I found that I'm going to do it right now.

[00:12:29] And so I encourage people to write down the things that you enjoyed, even as a child, because it's been finding you and been following you all of your life. You just have to sit down and listen to your inner self, your inner voice that says, this is who you are. This is what you're gifted to do. This is what the world needs. And you have to be willing to give it to the generation that you're in. And that makes a lot of sense.

[00:12:53] But there's a lot of people working three jobs who are just existing, trying to get by, especially with the way employment situations are in the States and how little protections you have over there. It's easier and different over here. It's very better, just different. But I just wonder whether, because we hear people talk about these things. And I often wonder if you're very young and you're still trying to get in the housing ladder or you're older and you're stuck in poor jobs, you've got big debts, all that sort of stuff.

[00:13:18] Does that just become the sort of talk of an influencer or actually does that help you move forward in your own life? Do you know what I mean? Is that usable for everybody? I suppose it's the best question. Yeah, I do know that I did it for a number of years, too, when I was floundering around and really didn't know what my why was. But I also knew what were things that I didn't like doing, things that I wasn't really good at, things that I didn't really get a lot of energy at.

[00:13:44] So I encourage people to find the thing that, you know, that energizes you, that inspires you, that pushes you and motivates you. And that means in jobs, in relationships, in life. Even for me, as I said, I created my space now in which I live, the area and the environment in which I wanted to be in. I think those are all really important. Most people fail in life not because they aim too high and miss, but because they aim too low and hit. And they get comfortable just with the status quo.

[00:14:12] And I encourage people to understand that there's greatness on the inside of us. You're not called to be average. You're not called to live a below average life. There's so much on the inside of you. And if you don't feel a sense of fulfillment and passion and excitement every day you wake up to do what you do, to go to the jobs that you go to, to do the careers that you're in, then I encourage you and invite you to really rethink and do some internal work, to do some introspection and find out what is it that I do like to do?

[00:14:42] And what is it that keeps me doing all these things that I'm not really excited about? Find that niche. Find that passion. Find that purpose. And stay true to that. But the key is, I think there's a bit, isn't there, which is great because there's the introspection and all that sort of stuff. And I've met many people sitting at the tops of mountains with their knees bent, praying at the altar or whatever it might be, finding themselves. And there's lots of people who find themselves, but then they don't do anything.

[00:15:08] And I like your phrase that you used earlier, which is you have to move from the what if to the what's next sort of idea. You've got to actually take action. This is where resilience comes in because you're going to make mistakes. You're going to get things wrong. People are going to push you back. And you have to find the way in the meals means to have that mental flexibility to deal with adversity and challenge, don't you? Otherwise, you just sit in your head, don't you? Having all these dreams, but don't do anything about it. I consider opportunities as a gift.

[00:15:38] Sometimes that gift might be disguised as trials and tests and troubles and challenges. But when you look at them as opportunities to learn, to grow and look at them as a bridge to go to the next level in your life. And I ask people in many of my training programs is how many of you like change? And very few of the hands go up. But I think that's the key is to become a change agent. I will say there's three people, three types of people in life. Those that make things happen. Those that watch things happen.

[00:16:06] And those that wonder what happened. But if we become those people that make things happen and we're comfortable with change and we embrace change as an opportunity to take us to our next level and our new chapter in life and see it as a positive thing, I think, again, more people will do it. I also encourage people, too, to take risk. Jump and grow your wings on the way down. There's so much that's on the inside of us, but we tend to second guess ourselves.

[00:16:33] We can become our biggest adversaries and not be our biggest cheerleaders. So flip the script and not have a whole lot of what if I'm not good enough? What if I fail? What if I look stupid? What if I get rejected? But look at the flip side of that and say, what if I don't do this? What are the missed opportunities? What are some of the brilliance that I might be able to get? The development that comes from this that makes me better every day. Hmm. Like that.

[00:16:59] And of course, another vital part of this is, and you're right about the fear side of this, and I'm not a fan of imposter syndrome as a sort of thing, but we are far too obsessed and absorbed by other people's views of us, aren't we? Whether it's at work, and sometimes that's important because you might have a manager, stakeholders or colleagues, whatever, where their view is important and socially we have to rub along with them. But there's a lot of people who, when they're frightened, when they have this what if, they won't do it because of that. What will people think? What will my parents say?

[00:17:28] And it's this idea that being an adult is that thing where you say, people won't like me, people won't respect me, people will potentially reject me. And that's really, that's a big call, isn't it? Because we're social animals that want to be accepted. But we have to learn to get past that, don't we? And sometimes you say, I'm interested, you see, there's this funny thing, isn't there? We talk about wanting great relationships, but great relationships aren't those where you become trapped in the views and opinions of other people, aren't they? Because they're no longer good relationships.

[00:17:56] So I just wonder if you can add to that. I can, because I used to be that person that cared so much about other people's opinions. But what I had to learn is I grew up and I got more mature and I got really clear and resolved about who I am and what I'm called to do. I became unapologetic about being able to do those things. And then, like I talked about, the importance of having your own personal board of advisors and the people who are around you, they're not going to be your naysayers.

[00:18:24] They're going to be the ones that say, you go, girl, you got this. You go, boy. You jump. You take the risk. It's in you. I'm here to support you. So I think that part of it is important. And then you don't want to put too much credence in other people's opinions, especially if they're not doing anything, especially if they're not moving forward. You want to be around people who've already been there, done that, wrote the book and got the T-shirt, right?

[00:18:47] And so they're going to help you to be able to think more positively and speak life and speak inspiration and empowerment to you. And I think that's more important. So I've gotten past all the opinions. There are some opinions that matter to me, but that's also the people who also I matter to them and what I become matters to them. And they always see it in a positive light. That's whose opinions that matter to me. I think you've hit on the critical point there, isn't it?

[00:19:14] Because you look at, I mean, you can write an article and you can get a thousand negative reviews, can't you, from people who, as you say, have never done it and spend their entire time online giving negative reviews to people who have done things. And I think we always have to remember that people who are giving negative reviews are often they're people who are a bit damaged themselves and deserve a little bit of consideration because they're people who can't do it in the real world for themselves.

[00:19:38] And actually, I think we all go through that process of saying, actually, if we can't do something, the job is to focus on ourselves and think of what we can do rather than thinking about how do I burn the wings of that person over there? And I think, but I think it's, I don't know whether it's a new phenomenon because of social media and because it's so easy to throw opinions around. But I think one has to have strategies, don't we, to understand that there will be fear, there will be opinions.

[00:20:05] But it's, as you say, you probably need about a dozen people in the world who you listen to, you understand, you get proper feedback from them. And they are people who don't have the time to be keyboard warriors because they're busy being successful. And I think that's the thing. That would be me. Yeah. If you're online all the time, just shouting and carping at people. I've got a great friend of mine who has, he's a trainer, great trainer, really great trainer. Not on social media, never been on social media, doesn't need social media because he's always busy.

[00:20:34] And then you'll see all these people on LinkedIn and all these other channels all the time. And there's a reason why they're on that all the time, isn't there? So I think finding, and it's horrible old phrase that's been used a lot, the sum total of the people around you, which is good. But actually, I think this idea of being able to reach out and ask people, half a dozen people whose opinions matter to you. And sometimes they don't have to be that massively well informed. They just have to be people whose maybe their values you respect, perhaps.

[00:21:04] That's right. Absolutely. And I've done that. I've got mentors in my life. I have people who are allies, who are advocates, who are cheerleaders and champions. From everything from my parents to my daughter to my close-knit family, they are very supportive, but not negative in that way. And then I've had experienced bosses who are just, they've been my coaches as well. And they've been in my amen corner, so to speak. And they've helped me to really bring my thinking up to a whole nother level.

[00:21:33] And again, it matters who your inner circle is. If you're the smartest one in your circle or the most successful one in your circle, then your circle is too small. You have to be able to think bigger, right? Dream bigger. And as I said, if you aim high, you want to hit it, not aim low and hit that. I want to aim high. And so I have to get around people who are at that level as well.

[00:21:56] And I don't worry about the voices that are down there who are upset or jealous or envious because I'm up here trying to strive for greatness. So I think we have to be very intentional about who we listen to and where we play and the environment that we're in. Yeah. And of course, if you're being intentional, which is what you're using a lot, you actually create that environment you want to be in, don't you?

[00:22:19] And that's where we went back to the beginning, don't you, where you said, I live where I want, I am what I want, I work where I want, I invest in causes that I want. And I think that's the point, isn't it? That's right. And we actually haven't mentioned your work in HR yet because we got distracted into all this other stuff. But it's interesting. Maybe we don't even need to touch too much on it. But what's interesting about HR at the moment is that it's always been going through a difficult time, isn't it? It seems to be going through difficult times at the moment because of the nature of the world.

[00:22:48] But for me, HR has always been about that change department, that championing of change and possibility and opportunity and development and those sorts of good things. And I know you talk a lot about, you've talked a little bit about inclusion. Perhaps you can say a bit more about that because I think that's really important. And the message of inclusion is probably getting lost a bit in the politics of inclusion at the moment. So perhaps you can separate those out. It's getting lost by a certain faction of people. But here's the reality.

[00:23:16] At the end of the day, all of us are human beings and all of us have a need to belong to something and to feel included, whether it's in sports, whether it's in your family, amongst your friends. And yes, even at work. People want to be heard. They want to be seen. They want to feel valued. They want their voices to be heard. And we want to come to work with our true authentic self. Like I said, I've discovered what my why is, what my passion is.

[00:23:41] And I want to work in a company that sees my gifts and my talents, that doesn't overlook me, that doesn't allow me to do all this great work and to perform and get the results, but feel overworked and undervalued. I want to feel like I can work for a leader who sees my untapped potential and brings out the best in me. I want to feel like if I'm doing great work and my colleague beside me is doing the same great work, that we're getting paid fairly and that I'm treated with dignity and respect.

[00:24:09] And if I have an opinion at the table that it's not getting dismissed and minimized, right? That's what inclusion is about. That is the work. So regardless of what our politics are today, you're right. HR has gone through a lot of evolution. It's cyclical, right? HR has not always been the most favorite department in the company because we do a lot of change. We are creating policies.

[00:24:32] We have to implement those and we have to hire people, but we also have to separate people from the company when they are not doing a great job. We have to train and develop people. But that, to me, is very rewarding. And at the same time, I think we have to help our companies build the kind of cultures where all people can thrive, all people feel respected, all people feel heard. This is the work that we do.

[00:24:55] And so no matter what attacks right now we're having, no matter how polarized we are, at the core of all of us, our humanity is to be accepting of people who are not like us. Because there's so much research that talks about the power of diversity of thought and experiences and backgrounds. And that helps us to solve better problems. It helps us to be able to serve communities, to be able to work more globally in this global hyperconnected workplace and world force and marketplace.

[00:25:25] So it really is a great business case. So I believe it's going to be around, even if the name changes, right? It's going to be around. This work is already here, even if the words and the letters change. You talk a bit about DEI fatigue. What do you mean by that? Yeah, DEI fatigue is those of us who've been in this work for nearly 30 years and constantly having to deal with those who are resistant to it. And I understand it.

[00:25:49] Some people feel like this work around DEI really is about giving people special favors and hiring people that are not qualified. I absolutely reject that notion. It is not true. It's misinformation. But what is true is that we want to ensure that everyone has a seat at the table, everyone's talents and gifts and strengths and the values that they bring and their assets are considered. And that not one group of people are superior to other groups. That's what's important. And it can get tiresome.

[00:26:19] It can be exhausting trying to constantly help people understand why this is important and why fairness and equity matters. And that talent wants to feel like they can belong and contribute and be treated with that level of dignity and respect. So it can be really tiresome sometimes. But you know what? I get some rest. I get a chance to talk about it. I get a chance to work through it. But I am in this for the long haul because I know it's important.

[00:26:48] And I want my daughter and I want my grandchildren and the future generations to have something to come towards, to have a legacy of being able to work hard and be able to be rewarded for the work that they do, regardless of their background, their color, their ethnicity, their gender, their disability or even their personality style. So this is interesting because I've always thought that the biggest hole in the HR department is evaluation.

[00:27:13] So as someone who is an evaluator, it's very simple to get a program published, a program, a policy written, and very few people look at the impact of it. And I've always looked at the sort of impact around DEI. It's very poorly measured, if at all. The no clear link between ROI and DEI. And I think this is one of the biggest problems for me. It's always, it's very easy to say if you invest a dollar, sorry, I was going to say a pound because that's a pound over here.

[00:27:40] But if you put a dollar into DEI, you get this much back. Then it's actually quite simple that you need to invest more dollars. And I don't think that work has been done either at all or enough or legitimately or robustly. And I just wonder whether there's a room for HR to start in the new world, start to raise its game in that sort of area. Because I've been talking about HR and strategic HR since the philosophy of HRM was established.

[00:28:06] And a lot of HRM still, the philosophy of HRM still doesn't really include that sort of proper impact. And I think it's interesting, isn't it? If you want HR as a function to continue, it does have to do difficult things, but it does actually have to start talking about impact. One day before I die, there's going to be an HR department talking about impact. It may be you. Yeah.

[00:28:30] I have, I've heard that as a, as an opportunity for HR, but I've also seen the other side of it as well. So I would say, let's meet in the middle and say that we probably have an opportunity to do more of it. And there's not enough companies that are being more robust and reporting it. Yes, we track the information.

[00:28:48] So for example, I've been able to track that when we have bought in certain talent and we've given them the resources and given them the support that they need, that we've seen them thrive. We've seen them contribute. We've seen them be innovative and help create products and services that help generate money for the company.

[00:29:08] We've seen them utilize their network and their resources to be able to tap into a part of the market and the communities that we serve, that we haven't always been able to really relate to and connect with. I think that's important. We can look at the retention numbers of who, when they feel like they have been given the development, the training, the resources that they need, that they stay and they do their best work for the company. We've seen where they've been able to contribute to solving complex problems in the organization.

[00:29:38] I've worked for companies where we've been able to leverage diversity and inclusion and be able to come up with new products, new services that hadn't have been thought about or wouldn't have been thought about had you not had certain groups there.

[00:29:49] I think HR can certainly do a better job of creating not only the metrics, but doing a better job of reporting them out and talking about how they contribute not only to the bottom line, but how do they build a kind of workplace culture where it attracts top talent and then top talent feels fully engaged, motivated to stay, and that it does ultimately help them to build a sustainable and successful business.

[00:30:13] So it may be more specific regionally, maybe more specific in certain industries, but I have certainly seen it done and done very well. Good. But of course, you can have the world's greatest people hired from the most diverse places, and then they have the cold, dead hand of poor leadership on their shoulders, and then you end up with just a poor workplace. And I think we're not robust and hard enough on the subject of leadership.

[00:30:38] And, you know, it may be partly HR, but I would say the core of any company that has a toxic workplace or has high turnover or just doesn't know how to really leverage their talent for innovation and creative problem solving and serving their customers and communities, it comes back down to one thing, leadership. Leadership, our leadership is at the core of all of it because it's who we work for every day.

[00:31:04] It's how we get the feedback, the coaching, the development that we need. It's how we're treated or how we're not treated very well. It's how we're supported and the development that will help us to be able to thrive. So HR is one part of it, but it's really about who I work for and work with every day. And leaders are the thermostats in any organization because they're the ones that set the temperature. They're the ones that set the atmosphere in which I have to work every day. It's interesting, isn't it?

[00:31:33] Because we can always remember the worst leader we've ever had. And we can all remember the best leaders we've ever had. But sometimes the most important leaders, the ones in the middle that we don't remember because they were neither terrible or brilliant. And I think sometimes there's a sort of thing about quiet leadership because we forget with leaders that it's not about them. It's about the teams they manage, isn't it? And that's a challenge. Look, you and I, I think, could talk all day, all night and the following day. And I've got to be respectful of your time.

[00:32:02] So look, tell us how we can get hold of you, what resources you've got to share, because I know you've got things on LinkedIn. You've got tons of things going on. How can we find out more about you, drshirleydavis.com? Thank you. I'll give you a clue there. Okay, yes. Please go to my website at drshirleydavis.com. But link in with me. And on LinkedIn, I am a popular LinkedIn learning author. I talk a lot about leadership and workplace and even career strategy. So please make sure you do that. I've got a couple of books on Amazon.

[00:32:30] I would love for people to learn more about how to reinvent themselves and how to get beyond their what ifs. And both of those books are available, both on Amazon and at my website. I'm thrilled to have been a part of today. So thank you for the conversation. It's so important. It's been a joy. It's been an absolute blast. And hopefully, maybe next time we'll come on and just maybe talk about those books in a bit more depth, because I don't know if you can go for those. Yeah, but I've got a new one.

[00:32:56] I'm writing a new one called Leading High-Performing Teams for Dummies. The Dummies series has been around for over 30 years. And then I'm writing a brand new LinkedIn learning course called Practical Tools to Demonstrate Leadership Accountability, which is so key and critical. That's absolutely critical, isn't it? Maybe when those books are out, we'll come back together and actually drill into them a bit more depth. Let's do that. Yeah, let's do that.

[00:33:20] Look, until then, Shelley, it's been an absolute treat to meet you and I wish you all the best with all the work you're doing. You're a wonderful person. So thank you so much for spending time with us today. My pleasure. You take care. Hi, I hope you found that episode useful and entertaining. If you want to support our work, please go to resilienceunravel.com and you can become a member there as well. You can also send us a question there and even apply to do a podcast.

[00:33:50] You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts or any of the other podcast hosts of your choice, as well as getting hold of some useful resources about resilience and a whole lot more. Join us next time on the next edition of Resilience Unraveled.

why

Finding Your Compelling Why: A Conversation with Dr. Shirley Davis